1. #31
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hi guys,

    I discussed with one of our engineer to try to get clarifications. Here is what he said:

    "In X-Supercross, reset does reset only player’s own bike. This is a feature, because the idea in X-Supercross is that the track state is shared by all players. I.e. one player cannot have rights to reset the track. For example, if you have network replication enabled for a trigger, let’s say this trigger removes some obstacle from the track, since it’s replicated, the obstacle will be removed for all players. If resets worked as in single player, it would mean that any player could restore the obstacle for all players at any time just by pressing reset. We could try to reset triggers that did not have replication enabled, but it’s essentially against the idea of shared state and could be confusing in some situations.

    This is how resets should work in Track Central, editor and in private match. Resets working as in single player in Track Central multiplayer track is a bug.

    I agree that the reset options in editor for X-Supercross triggers are currently confusing and should be hidden."

    I hope it helps to make it clearer. What do you think of his proposition (last sentence)?

    Cheers,
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  2. #32
    TeriXeri's Avatar Senior Member
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    Sounds logical En0, makes sense now, if the track state is cloned across, it makes sense the physics object only fall once/bomb dont work/trigger dont reset if it affects all player's screens.

    I agree reset options should be removed if not intended to be used in a mode, and aren't working, maybe add some info screen on changes in XSX when activating the mode in editor?

    I won't say "remove bombs" as they can still be used as regular objects when not triggered to break or used as decoration when exploding.

    Area forces still move particles for special effects so they can be used for deco as well.

    As far as OPE goes, it can also still be used it for example it's a loop on a windmill rotation 360 permanently on it works just fine.

    I remember Supercross editor in Evo(Gold) removed a lot of the trigger things, moreso then Fusions Supercross & X supercross.

    Not asking for the same though.

    Things like physics can also still work when used carefully ,I got like a falling barrel at the start of my BBC contest track, it only falls once but that's ok as deco.

    I won't use physics/OPE in the driveline but people need to be aware of it that they better not design things like moving driveline parts or things affecting obstacles.

    The way I understand, if you have like a plate on the driveline that falls down (physics) after driving on it, if it affects the riders after the 1st player, yes that's bad if they can't finish the track etc (the player could get stuck himself as well if he faults without reaching a next CP)

    What I don't understand though is the "trigger by other player" setting on triggers, what is it for?
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  3. #33
    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    Hi guys,

    [I]"In X-Supercross, reset does reset only player’s own bike. This is a feature, because the idea in X-Supercross is that the track state is shared by all players. I.e. one player cannot have rights to reset the track. .......

    ......We could try to reset triggers that did not have replication enabled, but it’s essentially against the idea of shared state and could be confusing in some situations.

    Cheers,
    So this means whoever is in the lead will set off the triggers. This seems more confusing to me.
    for example. optimisation, i would normally be able to switch off things no longer needed as they were out of sight. But in this situation i can't do that as a player further back would be affected by this shared state. Also triggers used with timing in mind becomes obsolescent as only one player, the one in first place at the time, will see it. or see the change in state.

    I had assumed that trigger changes would only be seen by the respective person who triggered the event. as all pass along the driving line, all would see it at the correct time.


    Which brings me to "Activate from other players" option in triggers. Does this mean that it activates a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time etc as others pass the trigger.
    If it's an ope this could mean an object moving in unforeseen ways (how to test this option.) as stated it doesn't reset.

    As it stands a triggered event early on in a track will be seen mostly by all, but as players become spread out, only those near the trigger at activation will see it.

    I would prefer non shared state trigger events as this makes more sense to me especially when we talk about consistency.
    it works one way in trials but completely different in MX

    i heard TC tracks were going to be made available in MP mode, but wouldn't this option break a lot of those making them unplayable.


    "When you have a trigger with this option enabled, it will get activated also for other players when instigated by you. For example, let’s say you have made a hit trigger that moves your camera to certain position on hit. Normally if some other player hits the trigger, nothing happens on your screen, but if the option is set any player hitting the trigger will move camera on your screen. And naturally if you hit the trigger, camera gets moved on the screens of other players. So, normally triggers are local and this option makes them global."
    So it's just for cameras? as all others are global (shared state) anyway.

    if you have network replication enabled for a trigger,
    This is not an option for us!

    since it’s replicated, the obstacle will be removed for all players.
    contradicts what you say here.
    So, normally triggers are local and this option makes them global.
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  4. #34
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Originally Posted by TeriXeri Go to original post
    What I don't understand though is the "trigger by other player" setting on triggers, what is it for?
    Answer from the engineer:

    "When you have a trigger with this option enabled, it will get activated also for other players when instigated by you. For example, let’s say you have made a hit trigger that moves your camera to certain position on hit. Normally if some other player hits the trigger, nothing happens on your screen, but if the option is set any player hitting the trigger will move camera on your screen. And naturally if you hit the trigger, camera gets moved on the screens of other players. So, normally triggers are local and this option makes them global."

    Cheers,
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  5. #35
    IImayneII's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    For example, if you have network replication enabled for a trigger, let’s say this trigger removes some obstacle from the track, since it’s replicated, the obstacle will be removed for all players. I




    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    "When you have a trigger with this option enabled, it will get activated also for other players when instigated by you.



    Aren't those completely the same?
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  6. #36
    IImayneII's Avatar Senior Member
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    Maybe I'm just imagining things, but as far as I can tell there has been changes in how logic works in xsx -editor/private-

    Could we have some kind of update on this? because, at least for me, at the moment it is even more confusing. And at this point I just don't want to spend hours testing everything out again.


    What I noticed

    - reset at checkpoint reset option is removed from area triggers only. So this option is still there for any other trigger, wich doesn't make much sense.

    - reset at checkpoint reset option seems to work properly for sounds? Or is this wrong?

    - reset position at restart on moved objects is now turned off too by default?




    What I will complain about

    As far as I can tell,playing a xsx track from TC works still different in logic. The problem with this is, the first time people see/play your track is on TC, that's where it gets rated, if logic is broken in TC compared to playing in private people will think the track is broken and never play it again.

    By removing the "reset at checkpoint reset" from the xsx editor this option is now ON by default on TC, with now no way to turn it off, and OFF by default in private matches. At least with removing the option I would have tought that everything would be on par and work the same everywhere, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So now there is not even an option to make everything work the same anymore.

    There is however a workaround. Apperantly if you set your xsx to trials mode in the editor and chance settings like "reset on cp reset" it affect behavior of the trigger on TC. This also works for headlights, if you turn them off when the sxs track is set to trials mode, they will be off when playing the track on TC. (thanks to iwound00 for testing this)
    I will refer to his post here for further info since I haven't tested this myself http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...1#post10605941


    I would like to highlight that this workaround is not a good one. If you change modes it changes certain settings like the camera to default and maybe other logic in the track. (haven't tested this myself recently so can't really say what exactly breaks, but I do know it changes camera settings). It makes building a xsx track even more tedious and half the people don't even know about it.


    So, at the moment it feels even more broken than before, at least if you want to work with triggers/animations and there is no information from RL anywhere on how everything works or should work, and there hasn't even been any update on what exactly changed as far as I can tell. So basically everybody is left on their own to figure out what works and what not, probably most of the people even only noticing it after they uploaded their track (like iwound00).

    If you want people to make xsx tracks, at least fix it properly.
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  7. #37
    i think the only issue is that when you switch mode and lose the camera settings including position.
    if this didn't happen then i could switch to trials make changes, test then switch back. then test again to make sure it's ok in xsx.
    as it is i have to remember changes i've made that worked, then switch to xsx and re-do them, then switch back to trials to test again.. or keep re-doing my camera everytime i test/fix in trials.

    if you use default camera settings anyway there shouldn't be a big problem. just note your camera brightness and filter.
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  8. #38
    IImayneII's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by iwound00 Go to original post
    i think the only issue is that when you switch mode and lose the camera settings including position.
    if this didn't happen then i could switch to trials make changes, test then switch back. then test again to make sure it's ok in xsx.
    as it is i have to remember changes i've made that worked, then switch to xsx and re-do them, then switch back to trials to test again.. or keep re-doing my camera everytime i test/fix in trials.

    if you use default camera settings anyway there shouldn't be a big problem. just note your camera brightness and filter.
    Yes this is a possible workaround, but an unnecessary one. It takes twice the amount of work to check for everything, this should not have to work like this. I highly doubt more than a handfull of people even know this is a possible workaround, or in fact even know sxtracks behaves differently when played from TC before they upload their track, like you did.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to make a xstrack, but with all the workarounds needed if you want to use logic it is not worth it at all in my opinion. Just make everything behave the same way wether you play from TC or private, It shouldn't be that hard to do.




    And I still don't get the shared state argument. Why have an option for "activate by other player" if everything supposedly triggers for everyone anyway (wich it clearly does not do)
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