1. #1
    RetiredRonin's Avatar Senior Community Manager
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    Spectator Mode - Your Feedback

    Trials Fusion MP has been in Beta for a little while now, and we're looking for player feedback. We've received a lot of great feedback about many aspects of Online MP and our team is continuing to improve upon it.

    This thread is specifically about Spectator Mode, what you like, what you don't, what you would like to see changed up a bit. Even if the feedback is negative, as long as it is constructive, then let us have it.

    This thread is all about us getting a better feel for how you feel about this mode, and will allow us a better understanding of where to go with it. Thank you!
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  2. #2
    spectator mode will be good if we can choose the visibility of session (GT host, choose the host we want to watch)
    spectator mode will be well if we can join the session (with a warning "join session") at the start of a player and the host accepts ... or not
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  3. #3
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Originally Posted by attila-999 Go to original post
    spectator mode will be good if we can choose the visibility of session (GT host, choose the host we want to watch)
    spectator mode will be well if we can join the session (with a warning "join session") at the start of a player and the host accepts ... or not
    Hello,

    That's not what is the spectator mode. You're describing the spectator mode we can see in games like dota for example.

    In Trials, the spectator mode is actually closer to a "master of ceremony" or "game master" mode where the player can invite 8 people from his friend list and set the tracks he wants with the game parameters he wants. As he's not actively playing himself, he can comment the race while moving the camera between players (while he's streaming on Twitch for example). That could be used for example to organize competitions like leagues or cups.

    For example, OTHG guys could organize on the forum a OTHG cup with 32 players, 4 sessions of 8 people, and for each session taking the 4 best players, then organizing 2 semi final with 8 of the 16 best players in each semi final and at the end a final with the 8 best players of the semi final. For each session, another player could record/comment.

    I used OTHG as a community but I could have used Aussie community with FatShady who's used to organize events... it was just to give it more consistence.

    The idea is to give a tool to the community to organize events. So if I can try to precise Shifty's question:
    With that use case in mind, for people who experienced with this game mode, what do they think of the current implementation and what they would like to see to improve this use case?

    Cheers,
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  4. #4
    Happyflow's Avatar Senior Member
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    I don't really have any friends owning the Trials Fusion PC Version / playing the Beta so I cannot give a review on bugs specific to this mode etc. .so I am just gonna say what I think of the general concept of this mode.

    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    Hello,
    In Trials, the spectator mode is actually closer to a "master of ceremony" or "game master" mode where the player can invite 8 people from his friend list and set the tracks he wants with the game parameters he wants. As he's not actively playing himself, he can comment the race while moving the camera between players (while he's streaming on Twitch for example). That could be used for example to organize competitions like leagues or cups.

    For example, OTHG guys could organize on the forum a OTHG cup with 32 players, 4 sessions of 8 people, and for each session taking the 4 best players, then organizing 2 semi final with 8 of the 16 best players in each semi final and at the end a final with the 8 best players of the semi final. For each session, another player could record/comment.
    Cheers,
    The example is flawed since the Master of Ceremony takes a spot out of that 8 at least when I fired the mode up I counted only seven available slots.
    But anyway it is not really important if it is 8 out of 16 or 7 out of 14. Since there are not gonna be any features added anymore I think you won't see too many people using this mode as it releases. In my opinion this mode has a giant flaw which is that if I want to play with my 7 best buddies, I'd most likely want to compete myself. Taking me out of the equation would only make sense for two things twitch and tournaments as you mentioned. As for tournaments I don't suspect too many are going to hold them since Trials does not feature a Clan System by any means. Only way this is gonna be a Hit is if Redlynx takes the best of Trials Players from Leaderboards and lets them compete for prizes streaming it on twitch / uploading that on youtube. I know that I would totally watch that. As a whole I'd consider this more as a Youtuber / Twitch Feature which, if not actively enticed, might only appeal to a very limited audience.

    I am not much of a Master if I can only select the initial maps and then can't do squad. If this is seriously a mode it should add features like being able to set a double points bonus round, let the top two compete in a sudden death with everyone else watching, set levels to be played with a certain type of bike, do an all out knockout qualification etc. . , . I am not pissed off about additional functionality by any means but praising this as a mode of its own when this entire thing could be transformed into a simple check box, that is just wrong and as cheap as it gets.
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  5. #5
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hello,

    Originally Posted by Happyflow Go to original post
    The example is flawed since the Master of Ceremony takes a spot out of that 8 at least when I fired the mode up I counted only seven available slots.
    No. Private mode is 8 players competing and spectator mode is 8+1 (8 competing + 1 not competing).

    Originally Posted by Happyflow Go to original post
    In my opinion this mode has a giant flaw which is that if I want to play with my 7 best buddies, I'd most likely want to compete myself. Taking me out of the equation would only make sense for two things twitch and tournaments as you mentioned. As for tournaments I don't suspect too many are going to hold them since Trials does not feature a Clan System by any means. Only way this is gonna be a Hit is if Redlynx takes the best of Trials Players from Leaderboards and lets them compete for prizes streaming it on twitch / uploading that on youtube. I know that I would totally watch that. As a whole I'd consider this more as a Youtuber / Twitch Feature which, if not actively enticed, might only appeal to a very limited audience.
    If you want to compete at the same time as your 7 buddies, use the private mode. I don't see the flaw here.
    About using it along side the Clan Feature, I don't see where it's not already possible. You have the tags and the results. Up to the organizer to get them and build his own rules/result for a Clan competition.

    Originally Posted by Happyflow Go to original post
    As a whole I'd consider this more as a Youtuber / Twitch Feature which, if not actively enticed, might only appeal to a very limited audience.
    That's exactly what it is.
    It's the same as the in-game editor for example. Only a really limited part of the players use it, but to make a difference you don't need much people using it. 1 people can output something that would impact much more people (for the editor and for the spectator mode).

    Cheers,
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  6. #6
    Happyflow's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    Hello,
    No. Private mode is 8 players competing and spectator mode is 8+1 (8 competing + 1 not competing).
    Cheers,
    My bad I just counted slots and did not recognise the invi as a slot of its own. As stated I don't have the beta friends on pc to test these modes

    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    If you want to compete at the same time as your 7 buddies, use the private mode. I don't see the flaw here.
    About using it along side the Clan Feature, I don't see where it's not already possible. You have the tags and the results. Up to the organizer to get them and build his own rules/result for a Clan competition.
    All I wanted to say here is that the regular player won't get a whole lot of value out of it. I was speculating about who is going to use this mode but as stated you specifically designed the mode to appeal to Clans, people holding tournaments and Twitch no problem with that. Except for that you have alienated all Hardcore Players before by scratching their favored modes. Seriously there is one Clan on this forum and there might be some on others but they can be counted on one hand. If you want to get the casuals into a Clan you need to directly integrate a Clan Feature in the game. Otherwise this will be a 0.01% mode and you have stated that the whole goal of your new multiplayer is to reach a wider range of players.

    Also I am throwing my magic pen at the screen and I can't set a final/knockout tournament / sudden death for everyone to see.


    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    That's exactly what it is.
    It's the same as the in-game editor for example. Only a really limited part of the players use it, but to make a difference you don't need much people using it. 1 people can output something that would impact much more people (for the editor and for the spectator mode)
    Yeah but the only thing I don't get is why not make an (on/off) eye next to the player. You could even set a limit of one observer not counting it to the overall playercount. That observer could be any player even the host. If you want people to do this kind of thing on their own with a pen in their hand you need not limit the choice they got on how they are going to do it / make an extra mode out of it.
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  7. #7
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hello Happyflow,

    Good to have a constructive discussion.

    Originally Posted by Happyflow Go to original post
    Otherwise this will be a 0.01% mode and you have stated that the whole goal of your new multiplayer is to reach a wider range of players.
    The goal is clearly not to do that a lot of people uses this game mode It clearly is a 0.01% mode in the sense: who will really use it: people who likes to organize events. But the reach of a game mode is not related to the number of people who are using it.
    This game mode, and the multiplayer mode as it is now, is much more "watchable" and "shareable" than the legacy one. So there may be 0.01 of the player who would use it, but the events would also generate some visibility (Twitch, Youtube, press....). And, you can think we "alienated" the core community but they are the same people who look at how much is played a track on TC. It's not far from a mindset that would be "how much people where watching the stream" "how many views got my youtube video" "how many people took part to the event". :-) So, according to me (and it's only my opinion), this game mode is actually quite friendly with what can agitate the core community.


    Yeah but the only thing I don't get is why not make an (on/off) eye next to the player. You could even set a limit of one observer not counting it to the overall playercount. That observer could be any player even the host. If you want people to do this kind of thing on their own with a pen in their hand you need not limit the choice they got on how they are going to do it / make an extra mode out of it.


    I can try to explain "why not" but, again, it's only MY opinion (don't take it as an official statement): I don't see a lot of potential behind what you propose (in terms of fun, of visibility, of community tool). Just like a good flexibility. The reason why we wouldn't do it is because it would require quite a big chunk of work and that for the same chunk of work there are probably more interesting features to do


    Cheers,


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  8. #8
    Happyflow's Avatar Senior Member
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    Hi En0,

    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    The goal is clearly not to do that a lot of people uses this game mode It clearly is a 0.01% mode in the sense: who will really use it: people who likes to organize events. But the reach of a game mode is not related to the number of people who are using it.
    This game mode, and the multiplayer mode as it is now, is much more "watchable" and "shareable" than the legacy one. So there may be 0.01 of the player who would use it, but the events would also generate some visibility (Twitch, Youtube, press....). And, you can think we "alienated" the core community but they are the same people who look at how much is played a track on TC. It's not far from a mindset that would be "how much people where watching the stream" "how many views got my youtube video" "how many people took part to the event". :-) So, according to me (and it's only my opinion), this game mode is actually quite friendly with what can agitate the core community.
    You can differentiate here between HC Riders and HC MapMakers. Seperating both groups would be a mistake though since probably 2/3 of the HC Mapmakers (the best of the best) were HC Riders (somewhere in the Top10000) as well, like for example IronWarlord, Norfair(HD), Willyumz, the list goes on... However I think there will always be quality track creators (if someone drops the game someone else gets in the spotlight/pushed to make better tracks), I don't think you have to put too much afford into this regard, even if this might sound saddening. Old people get out new people move in. I was a Track maker too back in the day of HD however did never get into Fusion Map Making. Swaying off; the reason was that the editor was getting too complex for me as of wanting to handle it on console I had hoped for a more PC optimized editor when I bought the PC Versions of HD/Evo and Fusion but was let down as of this regard, so I never really got back. What I wanted to say here is that you cannot alienate the HC Players without alienating a huge chunck of the HC Mapmakers as well. And specifically as of this mode you are talking about HC Players.

    I have to set some opinion straight here, I think there was never really a problem with the old game modes concerning player reach. The problem of the old game modes lay in the Trials Game Mechanics themselves. For the first part Trials is a game based 95% on skill, Cod is for example 70% skill, Fifa more like 55%, naturally talking about normal users not tournament users with superhuman reflexes and keyboard combos that just rip it. Then taking into account that you have only 4 players even getting second always felt kind of like losing to me. It gets better as the list gets longer so a definite thumps up as of this regard for having 8 players. Getting third still really feels good in such a long list of players. Meaning that the reward feeling of players has increased by 12,5 % . The basic problem is the same as most fighting games face; only the top players play it and if you lose often in a game you stop playing it. Matter of fact I stopped playing Cod for that reason long time ago. You are comparing yourself to other games having a luck constance when Trials should be more compared to fighting games as of actual mp player reach. Only way out is you water down the entire gameplay, which I for myself hope you won't, even if it means reaching more players. I've however, seen how the bikes got easier and easier to control (not only attributed to ability) from version to version making it harder to fail, larger angles, higher grip, more foregiving to bumps etc. so I am kind of sceptical about the further developement of the series. I like being able to fail don't take that from me .

    Originally Posted by En0- Go to original post
    I can try to explain "why not" but, again, it's only MY opinion (don't take it as an official statement): I don't see a lot of potential behind what you propose (in terms of fun, of visibility, of community tool). Just like a good flexibility. The reason why we wouldn't do it is because it would require quite a big chunk of work and that for the same chunk of work there are probably more interesting features to do
    This is because you are only seeing this mode but out of this mode come a ton more modes. If you have successfully implemented a function call to enable disable observer mode for any player you got, you can make a Tournament knock out mode (2 random maps each round). Also you could take this tournament knockout mode to an entirely new Level- what about having a tournament once a week for example in which all Trials Players get to compete. And by all I mean All Man that be the most epic thing ever if the servers can handle it. You set a time and every player signed in to this mode at the time gets to battle in a knockout. No refighting or anything everyone has one chance. And you stream the entire thing LIVE on twitch and Youtube for maximum exposure. That would just be a merchandise SuperNova especially since you'd get Let's Players on this Mode as well. Oh Man I would soo watch that. Not trying to sway you into anything I just really superexcited myself
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