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**funktastic-** · 12-05-2014

A personel note added to this topic-

As this games foundation is built upon creativity then it is down to the game to give reason for peoples creativeness. No form of art or expresion can carry on continuing without some form of measurement from its creators. The creator of this game get his measure from either his bank account or the gamers who create in his/her game. He is therefore by his own admission and type of game that he has put out there is obliged to give the creators in his game the same measurement of thier own quality without boundries and without rules. The way this could be done is vast yet it is not. This is so simple to do within this game. I think if the creators were measured or encouraged tc would be a far more better place to build in and far more people would be playing. The likely hood of someone taking the time to come in here and say well we are not playing this game is very small , humanity does not give reason for not playing games it just stops. So just because there is not people banging on the door saying they dont play for this reason does not in no manner mean that this reason is not valid. I am one and one that like to give his point but if 10 % of gamer feel like i do and say %5 just stop playing then that is alot of people not playing where there is an easy solution. Why is it so hard to give measurement in tc. is people going to leave because there might be a thread for new builders i dont think so, are peopple going to moan because one out of 6 that is crossplatformed is soley for upcoming builders ones new to the scene and ones to look out for , i doubt it very much. will this make alot stay , i think it would. Alot of silent gamers just fall away. Any percent that goes because of the no measurement policy is no percent too much when there is an easy solution and none that would harm this game in any form.

just adding this here as i dont know where else to add it witout it attracting vultures lol

**DJ_2wItchY** · 12-05-2014

Just to add to a few things on an opinion of mine.

not on the topic which this was about no i have not had this discussion before and it wouldnt have to be so hgihlighted if it was just left bewtween one consumer to a representative of a company

This is why you should have sent Shifty a PM. Otherwise sharing publicly gives every other user the right to their opinion on the thread.

Also.

As this games foundation is built upon creativity then it is down to the game to give reason for peoples creativeness.

I disagree. This games foundation is based on creativity as well as competition. It is down to the creator to find the reasons on being creative in the game.

**funktastic-** · 12-05-2014

i agree that people can share opinions as you are now but alot havent shared opinions , alot of voiced thier opinion based on preference if they like my post or not, thats not an opinion. " like im sick of and you have been told " these are not opinions these are statements of preference. I dont go in thread like for instance the over the hill gang and post that i dont like what they are saying ( used only as an example , quickest i could think of lol. )

I would agree with you on the createivity if this was a free game , the creator can only find a certain level of measurement from his self , if he passes that then he looks elsewhere and as we both know tc is not as place to measure your ability if so then your last track which in tc got only a couple of hundred likes but was worth so much more hence it being crossplatformed because the measurment of tc is none exisitent. measurment can only come so much from your own expression. every artist is nothing without credibility. Credibility comes in rewards hence the reason athelets hope to ahchieve more then a pb hence gold silver or bronze even then this is speaking in terms of a free enterprize as it doesnt cost to become an athelete not directly. The games foundations work off peoples creations and this in its self is an admission that it should show the same measurment back when its asking for money from its creators. To not give back any type of measurement and still earn money from someones art is in its self a form of minitpulation. Clever to pull off and achieve which this game does very succesfully.

If you ask for money for something then something in return should be given , self satisfaction of building i dont think is enough to keep building when the person who makes the games wallet is getting fatter lol.

I use to study taekwondo , each belt was a measurment of my progression , each comp i entered and won was also i measurment of my prgogression. If i lost i didnt tell my self oh well , i must still be progressing. No i went home trained harder and went back and won , any form of art needs to also be measured by another otheriwse your own measure could be wrong. this was a paid service and one that i had to put effort in my self also but also gained measurement back from what i had paid actual money for...

my opinion mind and i respect your too bud

good points though and ones that i would almost agree with if money was not involved.

**JoeRegular** · 12-05-2014

It is my opinion Funk that you are basing most of your points on assumptions you have made incorrectly.

Trials is a bike racing game with an editor included...you didn't buy just an editor.

**DJ_2wItchY** · 12-05-2014

i agree that people can share opinions as you are now but alot havent shared opinions , alot of voiced thier opinion based on preference if they like my post or not, thats not an opinion. " like im sick of and you have been told " these are not opinions these are statements of preference

Does this not seem familiar with your opinions on the uplay recommended thread?

I would agree with you on the createivity if this was a free game

So you can only be creative if it is free? Finding the creativeness in yourself is the point of creating in the first place. The game gives enough to be creative with and enough tracks for inspiration. All that is left for creativity is the individual. If you are not inspired by other tc tracks and think they are not good then you are just asking yourself to do better then.

every artist is nothing without credibility

I'm quoting this. This is what being creative can achieve. It isn't thrown at you. Trust me I know. Gone through it myself.

It sounds like you are getting to lost in what the actual point of being creative is. Don't look for a pat on the back all the time. Just savor the moments when someone praises you for what you have done/achieved and do the same to others.

Most of all just build for yourself and enjoy it. Honestly if you don't enjoy it, it just won't work.

**funktastic-** · 12-05-2014

Joe , asuptions are not something i would continuly post for , i have indeed had people speak to me via psn about this matter on numours of occasion , having a 15 year old son also with the same reason for not playing is also not an assumption. Making 2 tracks a weke in ps4 tc about about 20 at that is not an asumption. I speak of factual experiemce within tc. While you are a person who rider you are entitled to have an opinion based on that where i am entitled to my opinion based on a builder and as a mater pf fact this games long term play abliity factor is based on builders making tracks if not you would not have an track to ride there fore have no game. builder can ride thier own tracks riders cant ride invisible air. These are no assumption these are facts. It is my opinion based on daily activity within tc so no assumption is being made again i see that a point is being raised about the quality of an opinion and not about the opinion its self. When you read something i a forum it is not the responibility of the person who psted the post to provide you with evidence of what they have an opinion on. It is infact down to you to prove me wrong if you want to claim my opinion is incorrect. Nobody forces anyone to read a post that is down to your self nobody forces you to believe a post that is down to your self also. Posting on forum doesnt require proof of opinions if you want to prrove me wrong then thats fine please do and if my opinion is then wrong i will say so my self until then i think its best you dont post on thread voicing that opinions are incorrect without actually saying why you think i am wrong like you said your self you are speaking as a rider for the game so how can you tell me that i am wrong when my voice is of a builders...

Now yes it does sound fimiliar with the recomended , i say that i dont like this but has one differnece. I am speaking as a consumer to a representative of the product i paid for , i am allowed to statewhat i dont like. Members of a communty are not allowed to judge members simply because they dont like what they post. What right do they have ? what right do i have , the amount i paid for this product the amount i have a right to say what i dont like and do like. I paid for this privvilage other have not padi for any privillag to voice statements about indeviduals about dissliking what they post.

No one said you cant be creative but in the nature of this being a paid service and the nature of that there is a line that you come to where you look else where for measurement. Please understand that my point is not about enjoying it , i am sure you must have realised by now that i must enjoy it or i would not continue to create one or 2 tracks a week in a tc that is so flawed for builders

being pattted in the back is the least of the reason why speak about this and to actual state this is make me amused, do you really think i need a pat on the back lol. I need a place where i can feel that everyones abilities , everyones activites is seen and appreciated. Thus giving even the slightes of reward system tc ppl i tc to keep builders continuing. Im not sure why this is such a problem for this game as this is how this game is kept alive. Nobody need sto point out you need to enjoy it your self. I dont need to be told i am good i am and that enough for what i need.

Please can someone tell me whats wrong with giving something back to the ppl who keep this game runing , why is this such a hard thing to do or even give an opinion on.i seem toget alot of people telling me what i seem to be doing and not actually asnwering any questions. Its like the news when you see a politicain being interviewed , skirt around issues they dont want to answer lol

Everyone is creative in tc , all i say why is this ignored , this in the first instance should not need to be asked for and then this would not seen like people are asking for a pat on the back. This should be a priority to this game for one simple reason> these are the people who continue to keep this alive , not your top builders , not ones with creative awearness. The ones who feed tc with track after track after track. this isnt about my self none of my debate have been or points that i have risen , Its about the fact that this game gives nothing to the people that actually keeps it aflloat. Its not even really about creativeness although thats the main theme that binds the whole things together.

deleted some as was too much , but cheers for the response i liked a decent debate..

i do agree i have got too caught up in this whole thing though which is something that i intent to change , im suppose to be building my track lol not in a stupid forum writing novels

**Vimes_IXI** · 12-05-2014

Hi Funktastic, I understand what your saying. I agree, it would be good to have a tab in TC for new/up-coming builders. But what you said about builders feeding TC with track after track after track etc, this is one problem that would really affect what you are suggesting. Even back from the days of Evo, TC offers people somewhere to create their own tracks & a lot of newbie builders do & they fire out loads of tracks ...... at least half of which I wouldn't even bother to rate as they were that bad.

TC may say it has how ever many 000's of tracks it has on what ever platform, but a good chunk of them will be ****. How would you propose they would needle out the good ones? They cant exactly sit & play EVERY track thats released on every platform to determine whether or not the builds are of a sufficient quality to put their name into the thread or something like that. Now I'm not saying all other builders are crap, but there are a lot of kids and people who are just mucking about with the editor that fire out tracks that most of the people I know wouldn't give the time to run them.

They also rely on riders like myself & others to tell them about good tracks they find, so they can try them and put them forward if they think they are of a high enough standard to be considered. only 4-8 tracks in 1 week get x-plat'd, & thats picked from thousands of tracks from 4 different platforms, so 1 or 2 from each platform is all you get.

Plus you have to consider they OAC, the 360. the complexity of the tracks have a lot to play in the picking process as well due to the 360 being unable to handle as much as the others. The Team of 5 track that was played by Blue Badger on todays livestream, for example, was one of the best looking tracks I've seen, but it will unlikely be x-plat'd as the 360 would be unable to handle everything going on in that track.

I have to point out that RL DO give back to the community who have supported & continue to support them in the form of updates, new feature's *1* if you watch the livestream regularly, they do giveaways, run competitions with decent prizes & merchandise. They do an Editor stream every week where you can chat to the devs ask questions about the editor ask for advice, they actively support the community via facebook, twitter & here in the forums. Theres probably more that I havnt put here, but you get the idea.

To close, I'm all for good builders to get recognition for their tracks & I'm fairly sure RL have/are/will look into whether or not it's possible/plausible & if so you may see it as a new feature in the future. It may happen, it may not, the other way to spread word about good tracks/builders is on here as well.

*1*
the replay cam jumps instantly to mind as it is widely believed within the community that it was a direct result of the selfy simulator that Cannibal Shogun built on PS4, in his own time

DISCLAIMER
Nothing in this post is meant in an offensive way. If you do take offense anything I say here, I apologise in advance, but it is completely un-intentional
I'm Sorry.
I'm very very sorry.

I'M NOT SORRY, HAHAHAHAHA

jk ;P lol

**DJ_2wItchY** · 12-05-2014

Now yes it does sound fimiliar with the recomended , i say that i dont like this but has one differnece. I am speaking as a consumer to a representative of the product i paid for , i am allowed to statewhat i dont like. Members of a communty are not allowed to judge members simply because they dont like what they post. What right do they have ? what right do i have , the amount i paid for this product the amount i have a right to say what i dont like and do like.

There is no payment needed to come on these forums. It's not just the Redlynx forums but every game from Ubisoft, forums. It's a free service on here. Everyone has the right to say whatever they want as long as it abides the forum rules.

being pattted in the back is the least of the reason why speak about this and to actual state this is make me amused, do you really think i need a pat on the back lol.

No, I meant it in a figure of speech.

I need a place where i can feel that everyones abilities , everyones activites is seen and appreciated. Thus giving even the slightes of reward system tc ppl i tc to keep builders continuing. Im not sure why this is such a problem for this game as this is how this game is kept alive

They are. It's on these forums in multiple threads, Uplay recommended, user created threads. The people ho play your track and give constructive feedback are the people who you should look out for, they are the best, Uplay recommended is there to help others find good tracks to do the exact same with.

Everyone is creative in tc , all i say why is this ignored

You said not to long ago that tracks on tc were not good or inspirational... :P

Everyone is creative in tc , all i say why is this ignored , this in the first instance should not need to be asked for and then this would not seen like people are asking for a pat on the back. This should be a priority to this game for one simple reason> these are the people who continue to keep this alive , not your top builders , not ones with creative awearness. The ones who feed tc with track after track after track. this isnt about my self none of my debate have been or points that i have risen , Its about the fact that this game gives nothing to the people that actually keeps it aflloat. Its not even really about creativeness although thats the main theme that binds the whole things together.

Nothing is ignored but not everything is seen and can be shown to the world, so many tracks get put up it would take an army to keep up with every track, remember every track, rate every track. The best to do is keep a note of the tracks that are stand out to your preference and share on the forums what tracks you like. I've made many friends over the years on trials by playing their tracks, giving some feedback and you would be surprised what some interaction with other builders gains. I've got to where I am not because of me, but because of all the help I've gained for a long time (the list of people I could mention would be very long!!) People need to start banding together again with good honest feedback, helping each other out any way they can, it's always a positive, sure peoples creativity are different but use help awlays and always offer help where you can.

I know your comments are in good intentions and that's how I see them so I hope you see mine in the same way.. Try take a few things I say on board. Have had a lot of experience through the trials series and I know there are a heck of a lot of amazing builders out there that will become well known in time through their future tracks.

Stick at it.

**funktastic-** · 12-06-2014

@ vimes i had wrote out a big reply and it was cool but google went off so i wll try and reply with a short one lol ...

I dont dissagree with much you have said bud , although i agree with all about things to do in here , competitions live stream and so forth which i am apart for frequently all ofit , i dont think there is anything within this forum i have not taken part in lol. I do however think that this only highlights what i am saying thats because the majoirty of the people playing this game dont come online to this forum. what you highlighted is only available to people in here its not advertised with the game its self. I my self am evidence to this , i would still be an unknow builder if i did not get of my back side and make peolple see me. My tracks have progressed but skill in building is not the only things that is needed to be sucessfull and thats the same with everything in life. Skill and being know or having a presence of any sorts go hand in hand and people are lazy , people want this ingame they want to be told there is live stream they want to be told there is more to this game , people dont get off the backside usually and do things for them self. some do but not the makoiryt of online players. If this was in tc all that you have said then more quality tracks would be made because they would have help , instead people just thing well im bored nothing else and stop playing when there is so much more to this game than meets the eye with in tc. An example - the other week i wrote to a creator and said nice track as ialways do if i like them , i said hope it gets crossplatofmed he replied. whats thats. I have had the odd people asking me to teach them how to build quality tracks whne im not even qualified so there is a need and wanting for people to get better they just dont know where to go and the game should provide them with this without having to come in here. People should get the same out of this game as the people in heres , some dont want to become part of an online world i know i havent for years and only did in a means to get answers to these exact questions. Also to make people see me as a builder. If i missed anything its not that i am chossing to pick what i want , there was some about the twitch feeds that im not sure about but if your reffering to the editor then i know that one but if another that helps builders then i dont know. Also the editor isnt advertised in tc so how are people suppose to know. Twicth isnt a part of this game its a function it uses. If you read through all my posts and things like you have you will see that they are never with an intent or bad meaning , what happens is peoples reactions are quick to an original post or the continuing post within a certain thread which then i also reply in a manner quicklu which become heated. Hence why i made this thread so people who actually wanted to respond did and hopefully it worked out better than it usually does.

Thank you for your imput , i will say that where i speak of being a builder i dont think of the riders so much but then i see they get enough proivded for them by the game and by the creators who spend time creating. But i do only speak from a bullders point of view i can see that people who only ride dont see this side as how can they , its a different game alltogether for each. unless your both which in my case im not very good at riding.

Again thank you for you imput and it is appreciated that your opinions as my own are opinons are respected and its healthy to ask questions of your self and others.

@ dj you seem a very decent guy as so do alot , even if they sometimes likes my self come across in the wrong manner , its a close community and one driven with passion from all angles. So as much as i dont agree with some people or them me it never acuallty dertermines what i think of them even if responses are quick and sharp. Usually you can tell the silly beggers to the ones who have best intentions towards all this game and all its players.

I never stop asking questions , of my self or of others and always weigh up both side of every point thats why i try over and over again somtimes to make sure i understand because it is important to me to be able to achieve what i set out to do and this cant be done unless everything is understood. Like the editor , no point in knowing what something just does , its better to know how it works then so much more can be gained. Thats my philosophy anyway , and a better enjoyment or a better quality experience can be achieved. You will understand this as your a dev and good on you bud and good on you all , i just i dont have to correct tools to go about it in the correct manner so i have to do it the way i do but that for me is getting the job done and i do get the job done.

oh yeah i agree that this forum provides things for people i havent said it hasnt , but this is not within game and people shouldnt have to become part of an online forum to get the full enjoyment out of this game. This which is so vital to the progress of this game is vital to have it also ingame to some degree , this will only resultin better tracks being made better attitudes towards making tracks.

Maybe this cant be done due to the quality and money involved in the game im not down with all that stuff lol but the feature feed which is in away already used in peoples favs or friendslist is proof that time and money could be put into this. The featured in my view is pointless , its good but a pointless thing to have for a whole months. Most people have already played these teacks or have them as favs anyway or friends and there is a toold already provided to search for tracks by them.

anyway think i might hav ementioned that already lol...

again cheers all for the responses and the time you have taken to read my lengthy posts it is really appreciated and yes i will take on board views and opinions as there is some that i can learn from and we are never to old to learn. Even though my daughter said i was so old i didnt even no what her maths homework was about lol , i didnt but never let on to her

**Vimes_IXI** · 12-06-2014