Ugh. I'm on my phone so I won't write a long argument now but the summery of what I may write is that it makes me very sad that there are smart and respectable members of this community that are defending the way Ubisoft treats fans and does business. I don't agree with the attacks on Alex but I doubt he's completely innocent in this.
But that's the thing. There ARE no attacks on Alex, at least not from my side. I might be annoying the crap out of him LOL. But I, or anybody else in the chain of our twitter conversations ever said anything disrespectful to him, on either him as a person, or otherwise.Originally Posted by usmovers_02 Go to original post
Alex has options too. If he didn't like his, or if he felt attacked, it's simple to block users. But he has been a good sport, and conversed with us. He's said some pretty ridiculous things, of course, but he's participated no less.
Those in this thread speaking on his behalf is baffling. If he felt "attacked" he would say so, or block us. Or if he were the wrong person to bring this to, he could simply point the discussion to the proper channels.
I think a game will grow even without marketing if it's good enough (look at Minecraft). I also believe Far Cry multiplayer could be great enough for this to happen. What I think is holding the PVP back is the fact that the servers are slow, buggy and always lag. The movement and physics are very slow, not even close to responsive and very clunky. Personally I don't feel in control over my character when I play FC PVP, and I can look at an enemy player without knowing quite how to attack him to be guaranteed a kill. In games like COD or BF which are both two very popular games, they both feel very responsive and fast. You can quickly move behind cover, and if you spot someone, you can use your ability to control your character to kill him safely. The movement is pretty damn close to perfect, and playing something that feels tight, responsive and fun is simply not something I think a map editor can make up for to most people =/Originally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
It's definitely not nice to give people the impression that your game will have something it doesn't, so people go out to buy the product hoping it to be more than it is. But again, talking about what features the game DOESN'T have seems like a poor marketing plan... At this point I'm just repeating myself, but they did for a fact not say we could make PVP maps!Originally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
Of course not, but we don't live in a fairy tale world! We can't just expect them to hear everyone's opinion and satisfy every single customer all the time. If we don't like it, we shouldn't buy it, because that will force them to change. If the Far Cry PVP with custom maps is good enough to sell millions of copies of the game, Ubisoft would have noticed and expanded upon the featureOriginally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
Me too, but I've got a lot to do this week! Would be fun to do a "fake suicide" video I've been thinking about for a while now XDOriginally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
That pretty much sums up a lot of what I'm getting at here! If they want a super happy mapping fanbase, they should give us the raw and honest truth about at least some essential features in advance, so we wont be painfully waiting forever. But it's not definitely not wrong.Originally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
It WAS "some kind of community victory"Originally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
We let them know loud and clear that the lack of vehicles in PVP was a bad move in FC3, and they heard it ;D
Back then I was certain we would also be able to make PVP custom maps, and I had no reason to believe why we wouldn't. At the same time, if I didn't also love the open world singleplayer stuff, I might cancel my pre-order now that they have confirmed that we can't play custom maps online.
(Or maybe not actually... The map editor is damn good, and we will see a lot of incredible race maps =D)
I hope to get a review code for it, yes, but I have also paid for the Ulitmate Kyrat Edition as well, so I can make an unboxing video of itOriginally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
I don't see why getting the game for free would make my opinion invalid. All reviewers get review codes, and even though my channel is smaller, games are still just 60$... Money isn't going to magically make me praise features I despise...?? XD
(Of course, unless someone tries to shove a million dollars up my ***. At that point I'd lie all over the place, and still be able to give people their 60$ back after they bought the product I reviewed and still be bale to buy a Lamborghini! XD)
Legacy I am a part of this / we all are so I wan not pointing the finger just at you but all of us and sure it's not a witch hunt but AH was more singled out, had he said nothing that it might have been someone else - and yes he did cause a lot of anger with the 1080 60 FPS topic.
All I will say to you is don't let this consume you too much, I have been in many a debate over Far Cry - lost some good online friends along the way, sometimes it's been my fault I guess but more often it's just a break down of opinions but burn out and exhaustion can come from getting really involved so take some time out buddy here and there - I know your passionate and fighting for the good of the game but also try and look from the outside in from time to time.
NightGhost1994 I never played the original game on PC and only had the chance to play it with the recent re-release HD Vesrion, i will say though that the MP on that 1st Far Cry PC game from what I heard had a really loyal and kind of cult following, maybe because of the MODS and stuff - when FC2 launched with only 2 game modes that was a big shout / petition from the PC side for an Assault Mode to be added and it fell on Deaf Ears.
There never has been a good link / contact between the mapping community and those that make the decisions, Back before FC2 was ever mentioned 20 of us were invited into some feedback forums to discuss a FPS Game with an Editor and MP Modes, zee Evi 1, Claybaca, Stubborn Puppet, Maxprey & his wife Sugarm0mma plus others were in there, Cuz a MOD on here was there also - Some didn't show and the majority left early from the PC side.
For maybe a year we all discussed some excellent things but not once did anyone from Ubi come in and say "I like that idea can you expand further on it"
Kimi run the forum and close to the end she told us that FC2 was in development.
The best thing I thought was what Evil said, have an editor that didn't come with any game but could be added to any game they please and have this editor upgradable so that it can evolve - I think we all have to admire companies that open up and allow their members to be a part of the product I know Destiny are listening to their fans and are making changes all the time.
Maybe something has to change and maybe they might open up and have a heart in there, Don't get me wrong I am Far Cry mad but every game forces so many changes look at the outrage going from FCIP to FC2 then what came with FC3 It unfortunately seems that all we get are ups and downs, something good and something bad.
The first second I met UbiTimS when I went to see FC3 MP my first words were "Are we getting vehicles in MP" He replied No and I replied"You guys are fooked, this won't stop from people they will be gutted"
When I mentioned while in the bar (having a few beers discussing things) I talked about the Escape Maps and crazy maps and race maps - his reply was "Its supposed to be a FPS for fooks sake"
So basically someone somewhere had not done their homework because some of the maps are just crazy and are played with their own rules, Far Cry 3 shut a lot of that out but these new modifiers in FC4 look to be amazing.
Lets hope one day with a Far Cry game we get a happy medium where we can all get a little of what we want - if someone just had the decency to come in here and say the posts are been monitored and we are taking on board the criticisms and suggestions it would be a start.
I wasn't that nice at times with Far Cry 3 I even said that whoever made some of the MP Decisions should not be in a job like that - We are an odd bunch at times and some of these Devs should try and get educated on what people have liked and done in the past because unfortunately each MP Team appears to want top make their stamp on the game but really they should play a little safe also and give some of what the fans think is a Far Cry Must like DM and TDM for a start.
How about they try to make a working multiplayer for starters. You know, one that moved past the alpha stage.each MP Team appears to want top make their stamp on the game but really they should play a little safe also and give some of what the fans think is a Far Cry Must like DM and TDM for a start.
Lilli come on, man.
The difference is, Minecraft is HIGHLY successful because of the community feedback, it features ALL KINDS of PVP and PVE modes, and it's been supported for YEARS with constant updates and additions, mod support, etc. without charging A PENNY extra. I think this is a bad example.I think a game will grow even without marketing if it's good enough (look at Minecraft). I also believe Far Cry multiplayer could be great enough for this to happen. What I think is holding the PVP back is the fact that the servers are slow, buggy and always lag. The movement and physics are very slow, not even close to responsive and very clunky. Personally I don't feel in control over my character when I play FC PVP, and I can look at an enemy player without knowing quite how to attack him to be guaranteed a kill. In games like COD or BF which are both two very popular games, they both feel very responsive and fast. You can quickly move behind cover, and if you spot someone, you can use your ability to control your character to kill him safely. The movement is pretty damn close to perfect, and playing something that feels tight, responsive and fun is simply not something I think a map editor can make up for to most people =/
Look at games like CS:Go, Skyrim, TF2, etc. Those games have features that ALLOW those things. Just way more complex. And those are the TOP GROSSING GAMES ON STEAM OF ALL TIME.
Hmm. Activision lives in that fairytale world. And look at their billion dollar franchises. Of course I dont want Ubi to be jerks like Activision, but they can certainly take note.Of course not, but we don't live in a fairy tale world! We can't just expect them to hear everyone's opinion and satisfy every single customer all the time. If we don't like it, we shouldn't buy it, because that will force them to change. If the Far Cry PVP with custom maps is good enough to sell millions of copies of the game, Ubisoft would have noticed and expanded upon the feature![]()
So you're perfectly ok with being misled for MONTHS prior to lauch (Which you were CLEARLY under the undertanding that you knew what you were getting when you made that vehicles video). If you're ok with being mislead, then that would make you part of the issue we're debating here. Part of the problem. The problem that seemingly makes it ok for ANY company to mislead it's customers.That pretty much sums up a lot of what I'm getting at here! If they want a super happy mapping fanbase, they should give us the raw and honest truth about at least some essential features in advance, so we wont be painfully waiting forever. But it's not definitely not wrong.
And I bet you folks like Alex, and the "in-the-know" people at Ubisoft took that victory and ran with it. If they knew of this "Victory" (Alex's comment when he confirmed it was "WIN!") I have to assume that they KNOW that we have expectations about the game. Our displeasure with Ubisoft wasn't JUST that they removed vehicles from Far Cry 3 MP. It's that they didn't allow us to publish our maps with them to ALLOW them into muliplayer. People had to mod it on PC just to have it.It WAS "some kind of community victory"
We let them know loud and clear that the lack of vehicles in PVP was a bad move in FC3, and they heard it ;D
Back then I was certain we would also be able to make PVP custom maps, and I had no reason to believe why we wouldn't. At the same time, if I didn't also love the open world singleplayer stuff, I might cancel my pre-order now that they have confirmed that we can't play custom maps online.
(Or maybe not actually... The map editor is damn good, and we will see a lot of incredible race maps =D)
It's called "Conflict of interest".I hope to get a review code for it, yes, but I have also paid for the Ulitmate Kyrat Edition as well, so I can make an unboxing video of it
I don't see why getting the game for free would make my opinion invalid. All reviewers get review codes, and even though my channel is smaller, games are still just 60$... Money isn't going to magically make me praise features I despise...?? XD
(Of course, unless someone tries to shove a million dollars up my ***. At that point I'd lie all over the place, and still be able to give people their 60$ back after they bought the product I reviewed and still be bale to buy a Lamborghini! XD)
Looks like nobody directly disagrees that Ubisoft has the right to do with their product as they please, and we can't really argue that what they are doing isn't wrong in this case.
It just kinda sucks for us. I don't want to become the ****head of the community when I want the same thing as everyone else, and what I was getting at originally is that I think we will get much farther if we calm down a little bit. Does anyone disagree with that?! No or yes?
Alex is the guy people turn to on Twitter if they want to give feedback to someone who listen, so shouldn't we all agree it would be stupid to spam him and send him tons of furious rage links to articles and forum post or whatnot?
Our FC3 feedback pretty much got through and was heard (I KNOW, RESPONSES ON THE FORUMS WOULD BE GREAT), but changes had to be made as they wore. I just think we should do what we did to begin with to hopefully see FC4 patched or a potential future title perfected (assumign the spin off people are talking about wont have PVP like Blood Dragon).
Pissing of those who listen wont get us anywhere, riiiiiggghhht?? =o
Who's really listening? If they even gave a hint here on this forums that they were listening. If they gave acknowledgments to our discussions, this wouldn't be an issue.Originally Posted by Lillestoel Go to original post
WE. WERE. MISLED.
Did we mislead ourselves ?
Aside from Ian Higton asking AH so we can make our own Single Player Mission maps and MP maps and he replied YES that is the only time anyone mentioned us making MP Maps isn't it ?
We maybe fell in the same trap as FC3 where we all me included assumed that we would get the same hosting options as FC2 - even when at Malmo I had all these questions written down and it never once crossed my mind about hosting a match, just thought it would be the same with user made maps.
So did we all think we would be able to make MP Maps and play them when maybe the silence was the answer that none of us twigged onto from the start.
As for misleading - They could have so easily said its a NO you can't but they might have made the decision that if they did that the small map making community would kick up - if that was the reason then it happened anyway and the small community turns out to have a good voice - Lots of those names I had not seen posting before.
Thing is how many companies want to be open and let it's customers have a say - It is insanity itself really because FC2 / FC3 / FC4 Multiplayer would have all been different if they had simply listened or allowed us to have a say.
Summary of tonight's Twitter "rampage":Originally Posted by legacyzero Go to original post
If you calm down, you wont be heard and feedback wont get through.
So, the only way to see a return of PVP custom maps, is if you keep spamming until Alex furiously decides to bring your links upstairs to the guys in the suits?
And you accuse me of heating the discussion, when I'm only trying to make you understand that it's not very clever to piss of the one and only dev who's listening to us, and actually managed to bring us back vehicles in multiplayer. When at the same time, you keep accusing me all the time of having an invalid opinion because I got to go to Montreal (because that would never annoy me).
If you really were mature, you would have ended that stupid discussion hours ago, and I'm disappointed I didn't do it myself. I just wanted you to get what I was trying to say! But I guess you can't comprehend that being calm and civilized and not accusing people to disarm their arguments isn't very mature...
Can we please just agree to disagree? Yes or no? Because you only come across as an angry immature person who has to win the argument, and I know that deep down, you agree with a LOT that I have had to say today.
I'll admit some of you might have been mislead, but I don't get why that's such a big deal... The game still isn't out, so if this "misleading" was such a dealbreaker, you can still cancel the pre-order =)
I HOPE THE REST OF YOU GUYS WILL ALL ENJOY FAR CRY 4 !!!! =D
I'm definitely getting excited for Tuesday, and even if the multiplayer is ****, I'm sure the singleplayer coop will be a ton of fun!! <3