🛈 Announcement
Greetings! Far Cry forums are now archived and accessible in read-only mode, please go to the new platform to discuss the game.
  1. #1

    Is silence dishonest?

    Greetings mappers! Lillestoel here, and I just had a long discussion with LegacyZ3RO on Twitter about Far Cry 4 and the fact that we wont be able to play custom maps in PVP at launch. The main issue is whether or not Ubisoft have made the right decision to not include this feature, and if they have gone about it the right way in not informing us about their decision and not responding the the fans on the forums. We both wanted to see what the rest of the community thinks of this, so I wanted to make a thread so we can all come to a conclusion, even if that involves agreeing to disagree
    But please keep it civilized!
    (Also, please read the responses before you disagree with the opposing stance. In case they have a different point of view or something to add )

    We now know that Ubisoft decided not to let us create custom maps for the PVP modes in Far Cry 4. I'm sure everyone here, including me and LegacyZ3RO thinks this sucks, because we have had a lot of fun being creative and making our own maps in previous Far Cry games. The map editor is definitely a feature that makes the series stand out, and it has given us a tool for infinite longevity and fun in the game, even though our community has not grown very big compared to the following some other games have.

    My opinion is this:

    Ubisoft may have made a few mistakes this year, but I don't think this was one of them. Far Cry 3 was played by over 6 million players, and the vast majority of them only cared for the singleplayer. We all know Far Cry 3's PVP mode wasn't a big success, and so does Ubisoft, so obviously some changes had to be made for Far Cry 4 (what does anyone have to lose from that, right?). So they decided to not let us create multiplayer maps in the editor, and even though I think that sucks, I don't think we have the right to call them out for doing something wrong. It's their game, and they have to do what they think is right. I'm certainly very disappointed, and I want them to reconsider and bring back the ability to make PVP maps.
    And in my eyes, there are two ways for me as a customer to do this.
    ONE. Choose not to buy the game. This way I will be a part of the statistic that indicates a change in sales after they release Far Cry 4.
    TWO. Make videos where I express my thoughts on the game and decisions like these, and let the developers know what I think of the game, and what I think could be done differently or what they have done right.

    Another question here is this. Are they wrong not to inform us that they removed the ability to make PVP maps in Far Cry 4?
    I don't think so. Again, this is a big company with millions of customers, and everyone have their individual opinions of the game. I don't think it's right of us to demand them to answer to our questions, where "us" are just one tiny minority of the Far Cry fanbase.
    They have their own advertising campaign and plan for the game, and it would be pretty pointless if they were gonna spoil the whole game as soon as it's revealed buy answering every question about it and pointing out every feature it will support and not.

    What WOULD be wrong is if they told us we could make PVP maps before launch, and then sell a game that didn't allow us to do this! That would have been false advertising, and that would definitely be to do wrong against their consumers.
    ...But this is not the case.

    I just don't think it's wrong of them to keep us in the dark even though we may want to be informed, as long as they don't spread misinformation.
    If you decide to pre-order a game based on how you interpret Ubisoft's silence, I think that mistake is on you as an individual person.

    What do you guys think?

    Personally I have been accused of defending Ubisoft just because they were kind enough to fly me out to Montreal to try the game. If you think this makes me biased, then that's fine, you all have the right to form your own opinions, but let me just say this. The three of us were picked because we were vocal, honest and constructive. If you go back and see my old videos, you can see that I have always given both negative and positive feedback to Ubisoft without attacking them, and this will continue. Just because I decide to defend them in this one debate doesn't ruin my credibility. At least not in my eyes.

    I would definitely appreciate it if we were acknowledged more often on the forums, but I don't think we have the right to be. If we don't like it, it's honestly our problem, and I fear a lot of people think the only way to fight for a return of PVP custom maps is to go on a witch hunt against Ubisoft, but this will NEVER help! If they see us *****ing, bashing and moaning they will just take us for what we are. Immature angry internet fiends
    So let's not do that okey? Be vocal and constructive!! =D
    Share this post

  2. #2
    GhostWind905's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Trolling Ubi Forums
    Posts
    260
    I believe that if everyone wants to know if mp maps can be made, and the creators say the editor is back and better than ever, then they are being deceptive.
    Share this post

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Ghost_Fart Go to original post
    I believe that if everyone wants to know if mp maps can be made, and the creators say the editor is back and better than ever, then they are being deceptive.
    Yup
    Share this post

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Ghost_Fart Go to original post
    I believe that if everyone wants to know if mp maps can be made, and the creators say the editor is back and better than ever, then they are being deceptive.
    The thing is though, the editor really is back and better than ever.
    We know the multiplayer is radically different, and they have finally confirmed we can't make custom maps for it... And the game is still not out, so if you wanted to you could have cancelled the pre-order.
    I just still think it's the customers fault when they pre-order a game and expect it to be something it hasn't been advertised of being. Sure, it sucks that we can't trust the developers to make insanely good games every single time that blows us away over and over and over again, but we just have to admit that we don't live in a perfect world, and pre-ordering is always risky :/

    I will admit though, it's very understandable if someone makes that mistake and get burnt. But it doesn't change the fact that we were never told we could make PVP maps, and people shouldn't judge a product based on another, different product.
    Share this post

  5. #5
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    5,420
    It's their game and they can market it and include what they want, the route they went down with FC3 caused an outrage among the map making community (which is small when you look at active people around websites) however this new Hate Thread shows that there are many more map builders out there willing to voice their opinions.

    Now Ubisoft knew that the mappers and multiplayer side wanted dedicated servers and they chose not to give us that, it's their choice and they would also know it would leave people unhappy.

    All I will say is that a lot of people have been made aware and the news has circulated around a lot of places reference No User Created Maps in MP - Those that are a part of that have done the job in been heard but maybe it is time to now look at things from a distance and change the approach.

    A large company could turn around and and say you know what screw these guys with the next game we won't even include MP or an Editor afterall Far Cry 3 and 4 were mostly about the single player with what we got and the way they have been marketed.

    But say they don't do that and they bent to pressure then what next - You get User Created Maps in MP and you don't like the game modes you are given or you don't get dedicated servers and it all starts up again - Or you don't like this or that - I think the best way forward is to somehow have a go between, if anything can happen then it would be great to have some form of interaction, a voice who can say right it is like this - these are the options what will work best that's it.

    Personally I don't think we will get MP User Created Maps (I hope we will) but how would you go about things if you were on the other side because if it were me I would say no way screw them, Video Games are now a Business and I don't think it's all nice happy and relaxed it is pressure to deliver, cutting costs, deadlines etc etc.

    I think things are slowly siding on abuse and a witch hunt towards Alex Hutchinson which IMO is uncalled for, he is basically taking the **** for other peoples decisions, If he has to go upstairs (as he says) and try the hard sell to see if they will allow a Hardcore mode then he clearly does not make the decisions - he was the only one who answered a few questions for us when no one else would speak but in reality he seems more on the promotion side traveling all over the world doing interviews and saying what he is allowed to or has been told to say (in my opinion)

    The fact that his twitter account is open for us all to tweet is good that we can try to make a link and get info but not everyone is available like that, if I were him I would have removed that and gone quiet because it's a damned if you do / damned if you don't type situation.

    This Far Cry 4 Editor looks to be amazing, I will certainly be getting the game but I also like Single Player a lot and will enjoy making SP Maps - if they can patch in COOP then great, I would also like to see 1v1 through a new modifier, would like to see if SNAP can be added to Consoles with some form of button mapping on the controller - Hell there is a lot I would always like adding but we have to be realistic.

    Please think before posting and lets see if there is a way that they can be more understanding and open some link sometime after launch and see if at all anything can be done.
    Share this post

  6. #6
    GhostWind905's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Trolling Ubi Forums
    Posts
    260
    I don't doubt the SP capabilities are awesome in the editor, but the devs have been dodging the #1 question asked to them. The response has always been crickets. A simple no would have suffised. You tell me how are they being honest? I believe they just want us to buy it and then find out we can't make mp maps but oh well, they got our money once again!
    Share this post

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by FALLEN CHAMP Go to original post
    I think things are slowly siding on abuse and a witch hunt towards Alex Hutchinson which IMO is uncalled for, he is basically taking the **** for other peoples decisions, If he has to go upstairs (as he says) and try the hard sell to see if they will allow a Hardcore mode then he clearly does not make the decisions
    Exactly! This is what started the whole discussion! I think we should be civilized when we give our feedback, because that's our only hope to be taken seriously.
    If a small portion of their fanbase wants a feature to return for their new game, they might choose not to listen to us. This chance will only increase for the worse if we start attacking the devs, so I hope people will try the more calm and mature approach =D
    Share this post

  8. #8
    As for Ubi removing the PvP map editor, due to the lack of success of FC3s PvP, thats just kind of illogical. The ONLY success of any FC multiplayer has always come from the mapping community. They've all been substandard in gameplay, and next to no one ever bothered with the 'ranked' dev maps.

    So removing the only successful portion of the PvP, in place of a more complex version of FC3 multiplayer (Which is MUCH more time consuming to create and balance maps for asymmetrical gameplay), just seems like a bad theory.

    Just think about it, the new editor is just an updated version of FC3s AND they have the framework and servers for multiplayer. All they did was REMOVE spawn points and the ability to save as a MP map file. It was likely more time consuming to remove these things.

    It all comes down to money. They know they can't sell maps with a map editor built in for free. They tried back with FC2... anyone remember that? No, cause nobody bought it. It's as simple as that. I said it back when the FC3 MP fiasco went down, they want the mappers gone so they can sell content. It's just business, I just wish some publishers had the sack to say it.
    Share this post

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by AnEastonfection Go to original post
    As for Ubi removing the PvP map editor, due to the lack of success of FC3s PvP, thats just kind of illogical. The ONLY success of any FC multiplayer has always come from the mapping community. They've all been substandard in gameplay, and next to no one ever bothered with the 'ranked' dev maps.

    So removing the only successful portion of the PvP, in place of a more complex version of FC3 multiplayer (Which is MUCH more time consuming to create and balance maps for asymmetrical gameplay), just seems like a bad theory.

    Just think about it, the new editor is just an updated version of FC3s AND they have the framework and servers for multiplayer. All they did was REMOVE spawn points and the ability to save as a MP map file. It was likely more time consuming to remove these things.

    It all comes down to money. They know they can't sell maps with a map editor built in for free. They tried back with FC2... anyone remember that? No, cause nobody bought it. It's as simple as that. I said it back when the FC3 MP fiasco went down, they want the mappers gone so they can sell content. It's just business, I just wish some publishers had the sack to say it.
    When millions of people buy your game, there will always be fans that like different features of it. The raw truth is that the FC MP never grew very big, so they had to make a radical change to it. To me, that's logical. At the same time, seeing the changes they made, I have no idea why they couldn't also let us play the new MP with custom maps. It would only add more to the game!
    I bought the FC2 DLC for the weapons, and I will do the same for FC4. But if they try to sell us MP maps (which I strongly doubt they will), people will definitely be extremely vocal and inform them that they're anti-consumer to hold back the game to make more money off of the players when there obviously is an editor in the game that would make it all so much more fun =)
    BTW, the contents for the FC4 season pass and DLC's have already been announced, and it didn't say anything about more maps for MP =)
    Share this post

  10. #10

    This is false advertising !

    Share this post

Page 1 of 11 123 ... Last ►►