1. #1

    What do you want in a Track?


    Hello!

    I'm still fairly new around here, and I was curious about what you guys enjoy in Tracks. If you would like to, just answer a few of the questions below. I'm not trying to pry, I was just genuinely curious as to what the Forum community looks for in a Track.

    Thanks for reading!

    - PneumaticBog484



    1. Which do you value more in a track, the Driving Line or the decoration?

    2. What are your top three favorite track themes? (ex. forest, space, city, desert, etc.)

    3. Does the variety of bikes for a track matter? (ex. Roach, Viper, and BMX can complete the track, but the track is Pit Viper only)

    4. Do you enjoy tracks with a "boost" in them, if they are implemented well? (ex. Park and Ride has bursting fountains; on Evolution, Sewage Plant had water explosions)

    5. Do you like Custom Cameras on a track, if they are implemented well?

    6. Do you enjoy tracks with physics objects in them, if they are implemented well? (ex. Marina Mania has a tilting pipe)

    7. Would you still enjoy a track if it had lag issues?

    8. Do you ever slow down to admire the decoration on a track?

    9. What is your preferred difficulty level of a track?

    10. What is your favorite type of Skill Game? (ex. Bike-related, Action/Shooter, Puzzle, Arcade/Mini-game, etc.)



    Template for Response (so people know what the question was)

    1. Driving Line v. Decoration


    2. Favorite Themes


    3. Bike Selection


    4. Bike "Boosts"


    5. Custom Cameras


    6. Physics Objects


    7. Tracks with Lag


    8. Slowing Down to View Track


    9. Preferred Difficulty


    10. Favorite Skill Game Type





    My Personal Answers

    1. Driving Line v. Decoration
    They are both important and matter equally

    2. Favorite Themes
    Foggy Forest, Rainstorm, Sunset/Peaceful

    3. Bike Selection
    More selection is better, I enjoy using bikes that aren't the Pit Viper

    4. Bike "Boosts"
    I dislike boosts even if implemented perfectly

    5. Custom Cameras
    I enjoy Custom Cameras and see their benefit

    6. Physics Objects
    Usually I enjoy them, so long as they don't disrupt the flow of the track

    7. Tracks with Lag
    I still enjoy good tracks even if they have lag

    8. Slowing Down to View Track
    I frequently slow down to admire tracks

    9. Preferred Difficulty
    Hard

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type
    Action/Shooter


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  2. #2
    D2Dahaka's Avatar Senior Member
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    D2's response based on his preferences:

    1. Driving Line v. Decoration:
    Driving line first and foremost followed by decoration. A great track of course will feature both. I can repeatedly enjoy a track with a good line and limited deco, I can't enjoy a track with a terrible line and great deco. Put the rider first and use the "look ma no hands" editing wizardry to compliment a track - it should rarely be the focus.

    2. Favorite Themes:
    Not sure I have a favourite theme per se, but I can enjoy virtually any theme providing it's well executed.

    3. Bike Selection:
    Bikes that make sense for the particular track and make sure the track is designed around the strengths/weaknesses of the chosen bikes.

    4. Bike "Boosts":
    Best to steer clear of these. It's not very often they add anything positive to the riding experience. That being said, I have no objection to such things being snuck in a track if they can be implemented in a way that is very consistent and doesn't introduce too much wild randomness.

    5. Custom Cameras:
    Use very sparingly during riding and use only where it's essential to give a better view for the rider. Sure you can use them acheive whatever effect your going for (a side scroller for example) so long as it doesn't hamper the riding experience one iota. Put the riding experience first,

    6. Physics Objects:
    As stated in answer #4, if it doesn't introduce any wild randomness and flows well with the action, then why not? If this can't be acheived, then don't bother.

    7. Tracks with Lag:
    Slowdown is unacceptable under any circumstance. No effect or animation is worth hampering the riding experience. That being said there is alot you can do with this game with efficient resource management so something would have to be either poorly implemented or over ambitious to lag badly.

    8. Slowing Down to View Track:
    Absolutely not in a pure Trials track. If you're going for something a little less "Trialsey" and maybe more cinematic sure. Really depends on the context, implementation and whether it interrupts the user experience.

    9. Preferred Difficulty:
    I'm a technical-hard kind of guy, but can enjoy anything from beginner to extreme so long as the obstacle design and flow is consistent.

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type:
    One that is polished and well implemented - I prefer simple well tuned games to one's that are overly ambitious and feel unfinished. Ambition is great, but deliver at that level. Control scheme is first and foremost though, nothing like wonky unresponsive controls to kill one's desire to retry a skill game.

    Final thoughts:
    I don't think there are any absolutes and the above is based on my own point of view only. A clever creator can use all of the above tools in creative and fun ways, it's just more often than not people tend not to.

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  3. #3
    I only play hard/extreme tracks and really only care about the driving line.

    I will upvote tracks with a good driving line but the creator otherwise hasnt put a ton of effort into. But generally if the creator has put alot of time into the track I will forgive a bad driving line and just not vote.

    Tons of fps reducing explosions and weird camera angles are always an instant down vote though, regardless of how much time went into the track..
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  4. #4
    TeriXeri's Avatar Senior Member
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    Template for Response (so people know what the question was)

    1. Driving Line v. Decoration
    -Both are important and complement eachother, the best is a driveline that blends into decoration, yet still is clearly visible on what's ahead, the driveline makes a track's gameplay, but a good decoration gives a track atmosphere, and feel, combined with sounds/effects/custom lighting/sky/fog/sun/moon/clouds etc.
    -A good line with little Deco is still better then a Full deco track with a terrible line, however in my opinion, no deco or base-world deco with standard lighting shows very little care is taken about it.
    -It's also always important to optimize a track's deco, view distance/object distance/area clears are important!, also the lights & amount of objects in 1 area. Especially on PC where people might have lower specs too.
    -A bunch of inconsistent, floating ramps with no deco, or drivelines on bumpy cliff pieces with no smoothing out are really turnoffs for me.

    2. Favorite Themes
    -Anything that stands out from the default and preferably uses custom settings on light/color/fog/weather/camera filters, and fits together object wise, right now there are of course more futuristic/modern objects to pick from, but other themes are still highly possible.
    -A combined Theme isn't just objects, it's a combination of sounds/obstacles/effects and more.

    3. Bike Selection
    -My common choices but not set in stone:
    -Baggy: Beginner to Medium
    -Roach: Beginner to Medium
    -Pit Viper: Hard/Extreme
    -Foxbat: FMX & can be used as well on Beginner to Medium
    -TKO Panda: Flowing Easier/Medium tracks
    -Rabbit: Hard/Extreme

    -I tend to limit the selection to a few bikes on most tracks, Rabbit/Panda only tracks can be fun. Foxbat is hardly used as a Trials bike but it does behave different then a Roach or Viper, it's fun to include at times.
    -Main rule to me is, on harder/extreme technical tracks I tend to leave out anything but Viper and/or Rabbit, but a more flowing Hard track with larger obstacles could definately have a challenge of say, a roach, just keep it optional in most cases.
    -The Panda is most fun on Higher speed flowing tracks, and the driveline needs to fit with the bikes width, and when using panda & bike on 1 track, keep in mind to keep the time savers fair.

    4. Bike "Boosts"
    -I mostly avoid boosts that throw the rider unexpectedly, it can work in some cases, just make it consistent, like as seen in some in-game tracks, a "boost" that leads into a big jump is easier create then something very technical (the pipe cannon timesaver on Shear Pressure isn't very consistent), but really have to be careful of the Force applied/bubble size, ideally, make it visually apparrant that a certain area gives a boost.

    5. Custom Cameras
    -Do not suddenly unexpectedly Cut cameras , especially not in widely different angles unless it's like a crash camera or ending.
    -Best to use the standard camera position unless experienced, a widely changing camera can break an otherwise good track by confusing the player.

    6. Physics Objects
    -Avoid cases of any unwanted physics objects crossing the driveline if not intended, they really need fine tuning on force/weight/pivot etc.
    -Some falling decoration is simple to pull off, but a driveable physics object that is consistent is a lot harder, and test test test it over and over.
    -Play around and fine tune Physics joints, ask for help on the forums, cause it can be a very complex subject.

    7. Tracks with Lag
    -Optimize!, No excuses, especially PC builders, if your pc can handle it at Ultra, doesnt mean someone with lesser specs can.
    -In any case first thing to do is pick a proper location in the world to build in, edge of the map have less objects to remove, so when the camera faces a more central part of the game world, really always optimize the World Draw Distance/Shadow Distance and in my opinion most important Object Draw Distance.
    -Remove any specific areas of objects with Area Clear tools when object distance isn't enough. There also is an Event for those setting, very handy when making a track that goes from indoor to outdoor to indoor etc.
    -Don't use a whole lot of lights close together, especially Dynamic shadows cause performance hits, turn off any lights you don't need with triggers (mostly the case for Curved tracks that look back/forwards).
    -Areas with lots of objects, turn the objects that aren't on the driveline but near to Decoration only if it has no interaction, I usually lock the bike/rider to driveline so you can't bail off.
    -Don't use a lot of Fire/Water/Dust effects in 1 spot, better to use a few of the larger effects then tons of small ones, turn off lights on fire effects too when not needed.
    -Reduce the amount of Particles in the effect settings as well if effects are used a lot, it can help a lot on waterfalls/fire/clouds.
    I even see some tracks from very known builders not so optimized, while there's definately room for optimization, please put some extra effort as playing a track with lag/having to reduce settings isn't fun.

    (I do get some extra FPS lag on recording my Youtube playlist, but it also highly depends on how optimized a track is)

    8. Slowing Down to View Track
    -I prefer to add more scenic views to my "crash" cameras or ending cameras, of course you can add tiny details when going slower through a track, but don't force a rider to slow down just to view scenic areas. Of course a steep jump can extend the view time on background scenery when done well.
    -Extreme/Hard tracks are usually slower paced then flowing easy/mediums, where more distance is covered in time, so smaller background details & animations come out better, while larger background objects work great on faster tracks.
    -I really don't like a "freeze rider to play an action scene" style either.
    -Don't force the sun in the rider's face constantly either unless it's toned down on size/brightness, don't make it affect visibility of the driveline itself.

    9. Preferred Difficulty
    -I play most tracks Beginner to Extreme, not a big fan of ninjas with gimmicks like bombs/frontwheel/vertical walls etc. I think I like Medium/Hard best overall.

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type
    -Anything that's original and not a variant of the overdone Evo skill games (down stairs/don't move/basketball shot/hole in the wall, all been made too often and not original any more).

    Final point:
    -I watched hundreds of track videos on Evo & Fusion tracks, lots of experience on what's a good track from those.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by D2Dahaka Go to original post
    D2's response based on his preferences:

    1. Driving Line v. Decoration:
    Driving line first and foremost followed by decoration. A great track of course will feature both. I can repeatedly enjoy a track with a good line and limited deco, I can't enjoy a track with a terrible line and great deco. Put the rider first and use the "look ma no hands" editing wizardry to compliment a track - it should rarely be the focus.

    2. Favorite Themes:
    Not sure I have a favourite theme per se, but I can enjoy virtually any theme providing it's well executed.

    3. Bike Selection:
    Bikes that make sense for the particular track and make sure the track is designed around the strengths/weaknesses of the chosen bikes.

    4. Bike "Boosts":
    Best to steer clear of these. It's not very often they add anything positive to the riding experience. That being said, I have no objection to such things being snuck in a track if they can be implemented in a way that is very consistent and doesn't introduce too much wild randomness.

    5. Custom Cameras:
    Use very sparingly during riding and use only where it's essential to give a better view for the rider. Sure you can use them acheive whatever effect your going for (a side scroller for example) so long as it doesn't hamper the riding experience one iota. Put the riding experience first,

    6. Physics Objects:
    As stated in answer #4, if it doesn't introduce any wild randomness and flows well with the action, then why not? If this can't be acheived, then don't bother.

    7. Tracks with Lag:
    Slowdown is unacceptable under any circumstance. No effect or animation is worth hampering the riding experience. That being said there is alot you can do with this game with efficient resource management so something would have to be either poorly implemented or over ambitious to lag badly.

    8. Slowing Down to View Track:
    Absolutely not in a pure Trials track. If you're going for something a little less "Trialsey" and maybe more cinematic sure. Really depends on the context, implementation and whether it interrupts the user experience.

    9. Preferred Difficulty:
    I'm a technical-hard kind of guy, but can enjoy anything from beginner to extreme so long as the obstacle design and flow is consistent.

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type:
    One that is polished and well implemented - I prefer simple well tuned games to one's that are overly ambitious and feel unfinished. Ambition is great, but deliver at that level. Control scheme is first and foremost though, nothing like wonky unresponsive controls to kill one's desire to retry a skill game.

    Final thoughts:
    I don't think there are any absolutes and the above is based on my own point of view only. A clever creator can use all of the above tools in creative and fun ways, it's just more often than not people tend not to.


    I was going to write a reply but everything D2 has said is spot on.
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  6. #6
    Sandholm's Avatar Senior Member
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    the only thing I want is a good but hard line and no stupid objects that you have to ride on!. and no tire glitches either
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  7. #7
    1-Normally, driveline is god. Without a solid line, nothing else matters. However, if a track has truly exceptional visuals, I can still adore it if it's line is kinda crappy.

    2-my favorite theme is anything but the future lol. Seriously, stay as far away from using the pieces for their conventional purpose. They make for a bland and characterless environment.
    ...and try to keep that damn sun out of my eyes as I try to see my rider. It's a cheesy gimmick.

    3- ultimately I prefer a track that allows every bike that is able to finish the course, as in many cases more than one can do it. Also, a well designed driveline tends to have subtleties built into them to accommodate multiple vehicles, with perhaps the exception of extremes. But if you were to only allow 1 bike, for the love of god it better be relative to the difficulty of the track. No pit viper on a medium track!

    4-only if they are tastefully done, and can't be grossly exploited in ways that are near impossible to replicate. Sewage plant from evo was insane. That is the bad way to do it. It was a powerful and super short burst, which made it easy to exploit by throwing your weight a certain way. Subtler lifts and those over a longer period of time are much more consistent, and don't ruin the experience.

    5-custom cams can add nice flavor to a track. They can also be essential in providing a competant view of an obstacle. Custom cams should not be so jarring and frequent though, as to mess with the comfort that a rider should have when running a track...unless that's totally the idea, like evo's mind bender.

    6-physics objects are tough to decide on, they can work, but I imagine a lot of people arguing over this one. If a track is hardcore, and all about speedrunning, you should probably keep physics objects totally out. If its a wild style track, go nuts. I do really enjoy physics obstacles as they open up a ton of options and opportunities, but making them consistent and controllable for speedrunning can be a very hard thing to do. Physics factory in evo is a prime example of this. Trying to speedrun it is almost a total crapshoot, as any teeny variation can lead to a massive change and mess you up. I still loved it as a single track, but when it's put into a tournament, it just became a sick joke.

    7-I look at lag the same way I do with the deco vs dl conversation. Lag is a no no, BUT, if the track is just so fantasic, and the fascinating details and effects warrant some lag, then I'm willing to accept it. But if someone stupidly spams a bunch of crap and bogs it down when it could easily have been avoided, no, I dont have any tolerance for it.

    8-all the time! I take in as much as the creator lets me. So by all means, impliment something behind me at the start, put in scenic fail cams, and make a sweet end event. I love a track that can be admired at my leisure, instead of trying to juggle riding and gawking.

    9- probably hard. As it is somewhat challenging and still forgiving. I can crush an extreme, but people tend to build them with wildly different ideas of what a standard extreme actually is. As for the easier end of the spectrum, I like them too, as long as the driveline is built with smart timesavers built into them for the hardcore riders; essentially hard and extreme jumps built within the track. So many of fusions easier tracks are nothing but roller coaster clones. They look boring and lazy, and play just the same.

    10-I'm open to pretty much all possibilities here. My main priority with skill games is to SCORE IT PROPERLY. It's absolutely fundamental for a skill game to have counters that work flawlessly, and have the primary and or secondary scores be perfect. These can be difficult and also forgivable if the skill game has nothing to do with trials and is its own wild creation, essentially its own game. I tend to get way more excited about wild skill games that aren't about trials. The editor offers insane flexibility and I respect the builders who dedicate the tons of time it takes to build these complex games.
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  8. #8
    auzkahglt's Avatar Member
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    1. Driving Line v. Decoration
    A good Track doesn´t need Decoration but it´s nice to have

    2. Favorite Themes
    Trials HD Style (dirty,rusty,wooden)

    3. Bike Selection
    just be sure the track is driveable with the bikes availible

    4. Bike "Boosts"
    NOOOO

    5. Custom Cameras
    NAH (maybe after finish)

    6. Physics Objects
    better not

    7. Tracks with Lag
    if it´s just for showing whats possible ok

    8. Slowing Down to View Track
    yes i do this often

    9. Preferred Difficulty
    hard (like someone said extreme is sometimes just too ninja 4 me)

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type
    Hill Climbs (are you already working on an infinite one?=)

    i really like your tracks/skill games everyone is awesome!
    that giant in that 1CP map....just great
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  9. #9
    1. Driving Line v. Decoration
    80% drive line and 20% deco. 1 thing is for sure a bad drive line cannot be compensated with good deco, but a great drive line doesn't need much decoration at all. I just appreciate the time someone puts into it if it's decoration nicely.


    2. Favorite Themes
    Rusty, Old, Warehouse, HD style maps are first. Night tracks 2nd and really any type of well themed map for 3rd.


    3. Bike Selection
    Match the bike with the difficulty to some extent. ie: I would never put a roach on an extreme, but I would also never use a Baggie on a beginner or easy. I only like the Roach and Pit Viper anyway.

    4. Bike "Boosts"
    NEVER


    5. Custom Cameras
    Only when it makes sense...I used them a lot a couple years back, but they really only get in the way of the experience. I tend to only use them for a cinematic death or ending now.

    6. Physics Objects
    I used to like them but now could care less for them. Only use them when it flows smoothly with the map. ie: hitting a tree and knocking it down to the drive line or something...even then I'm not really a fan.

    7. Tracks with Lag
    Any lag at all is terrible...usually due to using way to many physics objects or way to much decoration in the background. This is actually one of my worst bad habits when creating a map. x.x

    8. Slowing Down to View Track
    I do this often if the decoration is awesome. I can't tell you how many time I replayed "The Contraption" on EVO because of the deco alone. I loved it!

    9. Preferred Difficulty
    Extreme to low level Ninja first...then Hard and Medium. Unless it has a great driveline and some decent deco, I tend to never play Beginner to Medium...I get bored to fast.

    10. Favorite Skill Game Type
    I can't stand skill games to be honest. Someone mentioned hill climb earlier...I'll go with that.


    Good examples of great drive lines on Medium, Hard, or Extreme maps would be just about any map kidmpc makes...killer drive lines.
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  10. #10
    D2Dahaka's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sandholm Go to original post
    . and no tire glitches either
    You're playing the wrong game. lol
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