Where's The Love???!!!! | Forums

[Smilies2019]

Inside the patch, there are PC specific things but also all the cross platforms things and we can't release first on PC and then on consoles (it wouldn't be fair), that's why we have to wait.

sorry, but i dont think it has anything to do with fair, releasing fusion for PC with 8 days delay wasnt a problem.....right?

[stllbreathnbdy]

Something I hope we all can remember is that when people say bad things about RedLynx et al you're saying something bad about real people not some lifeless entity so maybe we can be a bit more constructive and thoughtful when posting in future.

this. A lot of us had venting we needed to do when we first started playing, but now, pretty much everything has been said, and we're beating a sad, dead panda. I can only imagine how some of the folks at redlynx may be feeling, checking out the forum lately to see more and more resentment. I know very well what it feels like to work very hard and practically kill myself every day, only to have others not recognize the effort, knowledge, and persistence I put into my job. I believe they too work very hard.

[ozy]

We're on it

Thank you for the update EnO,
The stance on communications is completely understandable,
And as much as I am waiting on the patch... I can waithappy to,
My only wish for Fusion now is that everyone at Redlynx doesn't take the negativity to heart
and continues to work on giving us the game I know you want us to have

Whenever it's ready... We'll be here waiting

[RetroManHD]

Thank you for the update EnO,
The stance on communications is completely understandable,
And as much as I am waiting on the patch... I can waithappy to,
My only wish for Fusion now is that everyone at Redlynx doesn't take the negativity to heart
and continues to work on giving us the game I know you want us to have

Whenever it's ready... We'll be here waiting

Agree...

[Jongie]

Thank you for the update EnO

Yes, thanks a lot! Any feedback is better than nothing.

Whenever it's ready... We'll be here waiting

Me too!

[Patabarnack]

Hello,

No problem for the communication[...]So, the reflex is to not take any risk and to not communicate what we are not 200% sure.

Cheers,

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cheers.

[sparkierjonesz]

hi Eno

i don't see how its unfair to release the patch on pc already, if people pick a platform that isn't as easy to fix bugs on than they should deal with that descision, as long as it gets fixed eventually

its even unfair to not release a patch on pc when its ready, why should pc be punished its not like they decided to buy something inferior, one of the reasons to buy a pc is because patching is easier and faster, you only have to hope if the game is multiplatform that the devs properly support it(which is pretty good so far, but can always be better)

also patching pc already has some clear advantages
-several people are happy because the game is fixed
-you can confirm if the bugs are fixed on a larger scale
-you can work on other fixes faster because you get feedback from way more people
-more people will be able to enjoy the game
-less chance of bugs slipping through on console because of the pc guinee pigs, so less chance more people get mad because a patch didn't fix the issue and the issue still isn't fixed
-people know the issue are already fixed on a different platform so they know they will get the fixes they wanted "soon", they have something to look forward too and be happy about

the downside is people might get mad because it looks like pc is being favoured and they have to wait "longer"(because others got it sooner) on a patch
this can easilly be countered by "more expensive to patch on console" and "takes longer to patch console because it has to go through an extra x week testing period" and some of the above arguments

im currently on 360 but also on pc for other games

i would suggest talking to the guys from rocksmith to see how the people liked this model and what they think of it, shouldn't be that hard to ask a fellow ubi studio

[IImayneII]

I have to agree with everything sparkierjonesz said.

A reason to delay a patch that fixes gamebreaking bugs for a majority of people shouldn't be "it is unfair for console players". What is unfair is some people can't play the game properly they bought and have to wait for a patch because of console versions of the game! I'm not saying everything should already be in an earlier PC patch, but at least some of the PC specific problems could already have been patched.

The downside of people might ge mad because it looks like PC is being favoured is a ridiculous excuse in my opinion because now, PC has to wait for the patch to go trough the console testing period. Isn't that exactly the same? Is this not unfair to PC players? Or does that only work one-way...

I also might add the PC version was also released a week later, I didn't saw people making hate posts about that.



There are other company's that don't use this excuse, look at Titanfall, xbox 360 gets a patch like 1/2 months after all other platforms, and I believe the patch for xbox one was also a week later than on PC. I haven't really seen anyone complaining about that.



I know this wasn't a descision of yours En0 but I can't help but feel this is an "easy" excuse to wait with the patch. I understand things change and more problems can arise while trying to fix bugs, but if there are enough things that are ready to be fixed there is no point of waiting because of other platforms. There will always be people who are mad about different things, but I still think people who post hate are a minority, not many people will come to a forum to praise a game they enjoy because they are too busy playing the game and have no issues with it, it's mostly the haters that do this and this is the same for all games, you can never stop that no matter what you descide to do.

Regardless of the haters, I still think more communication would benefit the community the most, and it's a shame you guy's descided to hold off on communicating because of this. I understand the descision but I don't think it was the best one to make.Remember, for every hate posts, there are +1000 people enjoying the game

[L0RDMelchett]

One reason we have been quite silent is that each time we communicate what we are doing but for some reasons related to gamedev, we have to change things, community gets really angry

Actually, I'd say the opposite is true. Whenever a dev has posted on the forum, the posts immediately after it are generally full of gratitude for taking the time to communicate with us. It's only when nobody has heard anything for a long time and thus the community feels like it is being ignored that people start showing signs of anger and frustration. I am pretty sure that the more interaction there is between RedLynx and it's fans, the more positive and useful the responses from the community will generally be.

[En0-]

Hello guys,

First of all, thank you for the constructive discussion. That's great, I really appreciate. I am going to give more precisions and insights.

I know this wasn't a decision of yours En0

I assume totally the decision. I didn't make it alone but I clearly pushed in that way. I am producer at Ubisoft Kiev and we're responsible for the PC version and other things in-game. I can explain more what pushed me toward this decision.

When I said "it wouldn't be fair to release the update first on PC", I should have explained more what I meant. If I was Sony or Microsoft, and I new a cross-platform game would be updated first on PC, I would think the studio is pushing players to buy the PC version rather than the consoles version and I wouldn't be happy. So that's one reason. Also, it allows us to have a better communication with Trials community (forum) and the gaming community (websites). It's a simpler message that allows us to be much more focused on what we want to say. Finally it's also easier to coordinate. To be totally clear, it's not something that has been requested by anyone externally (neither Sony, neither Microsoft, neither Ubisoft headquarter), it's a decision that has been made inside the dev team, so I totally assume it.

Also, the game on PC has been released later on PC simply to release the digital and the retail versions at the same time (to be fair with retailers). For the retail version, there is a delay of manufacturing and what is on the disc needs to be good enough quality (without the day 1 patch). A few weeks/months before launch, we identified we needed extra time on PC, there was some stability and performances issues and we also wanted to do the beta. We estimated the time we needed to reach a good enough quality, the delay between this day and the release was too short to do the manufacturing of the retail version. So I decided to delay the game on PC by a week to ensure we were releasing something on retail that was good enough. I think you will agree it's better to release something as stable as possible.

About the comparison with Titanfall, I don't know the details of Titanfall, but that's a project exclusive to Microsoft platforms and also, their first patch didn't contain any major feature update as far as I know (meaning: not that much, I can be wrong). So, for the update that is coming, we can't really compare Trials and Titanfall because this update will have some big addition. But we can compare with the patch that will come after. Following the coming update, there will be a patch on PC only with some performances optimization. For this patch, we won't wait for the next console patch because this patch will contain exclusively some changes that impact only the PC version. This situation seems to be more comparable to Titanfall and we're doing something closer.

So why we didn't release a patch already with only PC specific thing? On one hand, it takes some time to do a release that pushes us away of fixing bugs/adding features. On the other hand, we also needed extra time to test the fix for the slow motion issue on PC, and that was a good idea to test it extensively because we found some real problems that pushed us to remove it from the next patch and also pushed us to plan an extra patch quickly after the coming update to include a satisfying fix for this issue with other optimizations.

About the fact the patch could be tested on PC, actually the delay between the time the PC is ready and the time we can still fix the console version is too short to really leverage what you propose. At least for this update. However, I am currently in Helsinki at Redlynx office at the moment as we discuss with everyone involved in the project how we organize the development and different things like that for the coming updates. One thing we are discussing is to re-enable the PC beta for some large updates that the community can help us to tackle problems and also give some feedback that we can take into account before we release the feature for everyone. But it's only interesting when we have time to iterate between the time we give access to the community and the time we release officially the feature. So only for very large updates but I think that's a great thing and I think you will agree. The final decision is not made yet though but it's something we're working toward.

Actually, I'd say the opposite is true. Whenever a dev has posted on the forum, the posts immediately after it are generally full of gratitude for taking the time to communicate with us. It's only when nobody has heard anything for a long time and thus the community feels like it is being ignored that people start showing signs of anger and frustration. I am pretty sure that the more interaction there is between RedLynx and it's fans, the more positive and useful the responses from the community will generally be.

Yes you're right. And that's why I am here, I really believe closer the devs are from the community, better it is for everyone. And we're working to see how we can make it closer and closer. The problem is more when we say something ahead and it finally doesn't happen that way because we had to change our plan for some reasons. (like it happened for the time of the PC launch when we gave an exact time of release the day before and last minute technical issues finally delayed us by a few hours. The community has been quite angry about it (and it's understandable). We want to avoid this kind of frustration for everyone, so we don't communicate too much in advance or with too many details what we are doing, but only when we are sure what we will release. For example, the release notes for the next update is known for some time now, but we're verifying every detail of it to try to not miss anything, then we'll communicate it.


Cheers,