Hi all -
I've been reading about people opinions and I noticed how many people are calling the Viper bike dumbed down. I did initially agree on this since the handling does seem better. But now I am not sure. Is it easier or just more stable?
I notice how I can ride on the backwheel easily now and how easy backwheel hops are. Feathering of the throttle also seems more forgiving .. at least in terms of bike physics.
I've been playing the extreme's quite often these days and because the obstacles there are more difficult, the game is too. Sure the handling is nicer, but it seems balanced with the game and overall I think Fusion is more difficult than Evolution for Extreme levels.
I do agree that most of the tracks were TOO easy and too simple. I can think of tracks that were way harder in evo such as Lab Rat and Storm Drain ..
My question:
Do you think that the handling is too dumbed down? Don't you think this opens new doors, such as an additional ninja level?![]()
Viper does act different then Phoenix for sure, the back tire feels thicker and made of rubber, more bouncy and grippy. more then evo which mainly felt using the back springs.
Even while it is more bouncy when landing horizontal, you can jump further on pure backwheel angles.
The extremes in this game are more difficult then Evo in terms of obstacles imo, some fusion hard tracks have obstacles that would be in evo extremes too, but the game is different, the bike is as well.
I don't think it's dumbed down, it's just people who mastered the phoenix skills have an easier time now on common obstacles, but there are so many possibilities for harder obstacles still. There's still going to be heavy competition for the world records.
Personally I find hillclimbs much easier then before but some of the long multi landing jumps are harder, because I feel the bike has more grip, it also slows down with horizontal/double wheel landings, or mini backwheel bounces make it lose torque easier.
I also notice there are more steep inclines in the Fusion hard tracks that would be more extreme in Evo.
I can compare the beginning rock parts of Greater Crater with Out of the Pit, and there are various jumps/inclines compareable to Truth is out There in the other Hard tracks like Jungle Gymkhana.
I was no ninja rider in Evo, and I haven't plat the Fusion extremes yet, so this is just my opinion/feeling of the game+viper.
I personally felt some of the extreme climbs in Fusion feel even easier on the Rabbit, but the lack of speed makes it fall short on other grounds which is a good balance, but it's a perfectly viable bike on tracks like Eye of the Storm with no mega jumps.
I am guilty of using the term 'dumbed down' to describe the new Pit Viper. Let me explain myself...
I wasn't using the term to mean the handling was made better, quite the opposite, in fact. Dumbed down literally means made easier. 'Better' is an opinion, and if the bike is now easier to handle, most would probably say it is better, but that's where I disagree.
The Evo Phoenix was light and technical, but also lightning fast, it could even keep up with the Scorpion on most medium tracks.
The Evo Scorpion was no fun for me, big and heavy and only good for the simple, full-throttle tracks found early in the game, the easy-medium tracks.
The Gecko BMX was just awesome, so light and technical, it was a lot of fun but it didn't have the speed to keep up so it became a novelty.
The Banshee was like a cross between the Scorpion and the Phoenix. It had a technical side, but it felt rather heavy, much like the Scorpion. It was more fun than the Scorpion but not as fun as the Phoenix and struggled to keep up on harder tracks. This bike got very little of my time because of this, if the Phoenix is more fun, why bother using the Banshee.
My point here is that the Pit Viper feels like a cross between the Phoenix and the Banshee. Only it has all the qualities that made the Banshee bad. A heavier feel, less technical capabilities, and a back wheel which struggled to grip surfaces. I prefer the Phoenix, 50 pence front wheel aside, it was perfect.
You bring up an optimistic view about ninja tracks. Although the Pit Viper feels to have less technical capability, and therefore probably won't manage the same range of technical obstacles, it may pave the way for techniques we've not seen before.
Pit Viper has more back wheel grip than Phoenix or Banshee. It can climb insane slopes that neither of those old bikes could. In Inferno 4 there's an almost vertical wall that wouldn't have been possible with Phoenix (and that ninja version even less so).Originally Posted by xMotionSickness Go to original post
Almost every top 20 rider and ninja rider would definitely, wholeheartedly disagree. The Phoenix from HD and Evo would definitely make it through Inferno 4. Just because people in your office couldn't do it, doesn't mean it's impossible.Originally Posted by sebastianaalton Go to original post
Now how about some global leaderboard recalculations...
Glitched scores will be recalculated and cheaters will be removed. We are preparing the tools. I don't know an ETA for it yet. These things tend to take some time, since the game is now on four different platforms.Originally Posted by Chicago__AJ Go to original post
But once we have the tools ready and running, it should be easy to maintain the leaderboard integrity.
I think you're talking of something else than the others here. Yes, the Viper has more grip in terms of hill climbs. But when it comes to jumps and landings the back wheel bounces heavily so you can't efficently transfer the velocitiy onto the ground thus leading to many failed jumps.Originally Posted by sebastianaalton Go to original post
Another thing: At the moment I have no enthusiasm to go for top times because of the possible leaderboard wipe due to the FMX tricks advantage. Can you tell us something for sure yet if the leaderboards will be wiped completely or do you have a different solution?
Yes, I am talking about the pure physical grip (friction), not bounciness. Sorry about the confusion there.Originally Posted by Fl4m3rX Go to original post
We haven't even considered a full leaderboard wipe.Originally Posted by Fl4m3rX Go to original post
A Coffin trick isn't easy to detect from the replay data alone (since the replay data is pure button presses, and tricks are based on physical movement, not pure button presses). So someone has to go though the replays manually after the patch is out. We might need the community help to report scores that used the exploit. Once we know the scores that use the exploit, we can remove these scores from the leaderboard in a similar way we remove the glitched scores (and then recalculate the affected player global score). This is one possibility of doing it, and I think would be the best for the community (IMHO better than wiping out bigger chunks of beginner/easy/medium leaderboards by some automated means). Nothing has been decided yet, so we definitely want community feedback before we make the final call.
You really want to have someone watch all these replays?! O_o There are thousands and thousands of replays to watch.Originally Posted by sebastianaalton Go to original post
But you can detect if the right stick was moved. Wouldn't it be better to kick all those replays? I know, it would affect some "innocent" replays but effort <-> benefit is just not in relation to another if you would wipe them manually.
And seriously, how many serious speedruns include a trick? I have other things to do while speedrunning than caring for tricks. (Unless there is a ridiculously high jump somewhere)
Btw, not just the coffin trick alters your bike movement mid air.![]()