Deep Down - Amazing Next Gen Title | Forums

[rlmergeuser]

Procedurally generated is often mistaken with randomly generated, because it's actually far from random even if it uses random values, it has to follow some logic, i.e. in Diablo if doors could spawn where you can't reach them it wouldn't work.

RNG follows logic also.

[code:qdkvpwej]dirtyOldBoot= new Object();
dirtyOldBoot.speed= -1;
dirtyOldBoot.defense= +1;
dirtyOldBoot.weight=20.00;

shortSword= new Object();
shortSword.attack =-1;
shortSword.range =+1;
shortSword.weight =20.00;

var chance= function (){
var dropRate=Math.random();
if (dropRate<0.02){
return (shortSword());
} else if (dropRate<0.1){
return (dirtyOldBoot());
}
};
[/code:qdkvpwej]

I'm still a bit of a noob, but the above is "random" generation of of dirtyOldBoot and ShortSword that have very few properties. With other code not posted it will be called when a certain enemy class is defeated and assigned the location to be dropped if generated. All logical.
Nothing is ever completely random except the generation of the numbers, if i am not mistaken, but even then it is a float value between 0 & 1 most often.

[sparkierjonesz]

So, Capcom makes a Xbox One exclusive "Dead Rising 3" and a PS4 exclusive "Deep Down". Fair enough, but for me personally both games seems un-special, I mean Dead Rising games are more orientated by killing zombies constantly

Indeed, a bit mindless cos they hardly fight back. You're only in trouble if you jump right in the middle of them all but even then you can escape. They are just fodder.

while Deep down has random generated stuff, which is not proper for a game.

Random number generation has it's place, it's a neccessity for some mechanics or effects, it only really sucks when it's randomly generated level design.

For example, if anything is based on % it always involves RNG.

what wrong with rng or randomly generated games(even at level design)? they are awesome(the good ones anyway)
they can make each game unique allowing you to play the same game over and over and even after the 100time you start a new game still have it feel fresh
they can force you to play with different strategy's and tactics and even after 100games you can still learn new stuff
you need skill to finish the game

you don't play the game, you aren't god pressing the i win buttons, the game plays you and you have to mac gyver your way to the end
the game doesn't tell you a story , your journey is the story

[rlmergeuser]

they can make each game unique allowing you to play the same game over and over and even after the 100time you start a new game still have it feel fresh
they can force you to play with different strategy's and tactics and even after 100games you can still learn new stuff
you need skill to finish the game

you don't play the game, you aren't god pressing the i win buttons, the game plays you and you have to mac gyver your way to the end
the game doesn't tell you a story , your journey is the story

I much prefer games that do replayability by other means, namely choice & consequence design. Procedurally generated levels are always dull in comparison to carefully constructed challenges, events, platforming, puzzles, secret areas, visuals and so on.
Yes Procedurally gen. level design shakes things up a bit but you can have that with choice and consequence design instead. Choice and consequence design can be present in story, level design, and gameplay or anything really. All this in combination with 100% attention to detail levels.

The idea of choice consequence design is you cannot have everything on one playthrough, see everything, do everything. This results in great replayability when done well (most immersive sims for example) as well as choices the player makes requiring thought and having real importance.

I don't mind minor amounts of RNG in level design, depends on the extent of it. For example, random enemy patrol routes...well, 1-3 sets of patrol routes alternating randomly, but the routes are all layed out carefully by hand and this only benefits the experience as it has no downsides except the poor level designers having to set all enemy NPC patrol routes three times per map.

Also, pretty much every game "played you" before this gen. Only these days you become untouchable, have insta-regen health and hammer the I WiN! button.

[sparkierjonesz]

they can make each game unique allowing you to play the same game over and over and even after the 100time you start a new game still have it feel fresh
they can force you to play with different strategy's and tactics and even after 100games you can still learn new stuff
you need skill to finish the game

you don't play the game, you aren't god pressing the i win buttons, the game plays you and you have to mac gyver your way to the end
the game doesn't tell you a story , your journey is the story

I much prefer games that do replayability by other means, namely choice & consequence design. Procedurally generated levels are always dull in comparison to carefully constructed challenges, events, platforming, puzzles, secret areas, visuals and so on.
Yes Procedurally gen. level design shakes things up a bit but you can have that with choice and consequence design instead. Choice and consequence design can be present in story, level design, and gameplay or anything really. All this in combination with 100% attention to detail levels.

The idea of choice consequence design is you cannot have everything on one playthrough, see everything, do everything. This results in great replayability when done well (most immersive sims for example) as well as choices the player makes requiring thought and having real importance.

I don't mind minor amounts of RNG in level design, depends on the extent of it. For example, random enemy patrol routes...well, 1-3 sets of patrol routes alternating randomly, but the routes are all layed out carefully by hand and this only benefits the experience as it has no downsides except the poor level designers having to set all enemy NPC patrol routes three times per map.

Also, pretty much every game "played you" before this gen. Only these days you become untouchable, have insta-regen health and hammer the I WiN! button.

random/procedurly generated games(even down to level) can have risk reward just like any other game,

[rlmergeuser]

Oh, and the idea is that some choices may have negative consequences too, within reason

random/procedurly generated games(even down to level) can have risk reward just like any other game,

Yep, but they cannot have as finely crafted, focused, architecturally varying and interesting levels. Well, I've yet to see it happen anyway, but maybe I haven't played enough games with this design (they really put me off after playing a few).

[jook13]

Looks like it will be FTP... I loose more and more interest in the next generation of games each day.

[D2Dahaka]

Looks like it will be FTP... I loose more and more interest in the next generation of games each day.

Yeah I saw that and am not overly thrilled. I'll try it seeing as it's free, but think i'll stick with Dark Souls 2 for my dark fantasy violence fix.

The end of my last sentence reads very wrong

[jook13]

People dont understand the whole business aspect of Free-to-play. Its only free if you play on their terms. Whether its aspects of the game held back or time limitations, the only way to play the game you really want to is to pay. And when you pay money, its temporary. Eventually you will have to pay more. Over time it will cost you more money and you never own any of the game. THat is unless you want to spend a rediculous amount of time doing boring grinding, or simply wait till your "fuel meter" or whatever refills. That is not fun, that is people thinking they are "tricking the system" to get the game free. I think they get more enjoyment out of thinking they got a free game than they do playing it. I would much rather pay once, own the game, and then play it how and when I want... on my own terms. My time is more prescious than my money

I understand that publishers need to make money. I have no problem buying a game. I honestly feel like 60 bucks is a fair price for most games that are released, I really do. I just HATE how they feel the need to trick people out of money. I blame all the self entitiled gamers who honestly feel they shouldnt have to buy the game. It really is not that hard to pirate a game, a google search is all you really need. I remember reading an article about a game that was pirated like 50,000 times and only purchased like 1,700 times or something. What really got to me is one of the top comments read something like "The developers should be glad that many people played their game." Seriously? They should be glad that thousands stole their product and they didnt make enough money to even cover a couple of weeks worth of wages? My god...

Now, publishers have created a system where people think they get a free game but enjoy it a lot less and the other people get addicted and spend a lot more money than normal to compensate for the freeloaders. Its a battle of wits and the consumer is in a lose-lose sutuation here. I am sincerely not planning on spending any money on either of the next generation systems and I honestly think the videogame industry will completely crash, leaving behind nothing but tablet and phone touch screen microtransaction Bulls&%t.

[willyums]

That is not fun, that is people thinking they are "tricking the system" to get the game free. I think they get more enjoyment out of thinking they got a free game than they do playing it. I would much rather pay once, own the game, and then play it how and when I want... on my own terms. My time is more prescious than my money...

exactly how I think of free-to-play aswell - I want one payment and I want the full product.

[rlmergeuser]

it is the same practice as mobile phones there ten years: option + option + options = the total for an exorbitant price

= A scandal, but commercially very cunning ... and the process is now defunct, it only happens now for video games: a scandal!

I pay the entire game, too, and it fits me like this

avoid commercial excesses: Like this, this!