Curved Drive Lines Discussion | Forums

[xzamplez]

I used to ride BMX and dirtbike.

I understand your idea, and I think it would look bad. The rider would become a robot, and the leaning wouldn't look natural at all.

And in defense of the no leaning side: the position of the rider on the screen doesn't change, making it easier to recognize fine movement. If your rider was at different angles during turns, it could be harder to identify the riders position (posture).

Simply put, it is an unnecesary change when you consider the game has a serious problem, like tire glitching.

[emcee]

I know how you can settle this once and for all....thats right...get this on Jerry Springer

Seriously though...i think the curved lines are stupid, they dont make sense and the on rails feeling disconnects me from the otherwise spot on physics of the game. Its cool on tracks like way of the ninja where you dont notice you are turning but you can see the next obstacles around the corner...very cool.

However, too many numpties misuse it. Trouble is, Evo is a commercial game, HD was more hardcore imo. They have made Evo appeal to a much wider audience with TC and thats not always a good thing. You will always see the curved driving lines improperly used, tbh i never add them to my tracks and i generally dont bother playing them either unless they are done well.

[ben1bob]

anything that could increase the chance of the bike glitching would be a bad idea imo. and adding variable leaning would surely do that.

i'm not a massive fan of curved lines really, but they can be fine when used well and not too often. if they're used well i don't notice them, if not then i'll delete the track instantly.

i think there's more a case for keeping them as they are than messing about with them or removing them.

but don't think people are defending them just because they have the game and enjoy the game. because people could equally say you're only criticising because you don't have the game. it works both ways, so best to say neither!

[sparkierjonesz]

i can think of a few reason why they didn't add banking for the rider

- it might mess up the way physics work in this game and how the rider lands
- adding banking on the ground but not in the air could make air turns even look way worse than they already are(now they already look awefull), adding banking in the air too probably doesn't look good either

[Jarr3tt88]

Hes right, you HAVEN'T played the game, so you wouldn't know They absolutely didn't half *** the curves, people just use them idiotically sometimes.

I have two tracks with curves, you decide if I used them "stupidly" or unrealistically"

Sunset Docks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIBiSICdOHw

Nature Trial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7AGTgkFF1o

Honestly when I first got them game, I thought I'd ONLY add tracks with curves, but I have more straight line tracks.

[rlmergeuser]

to avoid lame bike physics and bad cameras, avoid making curved driving lines. to avoid annoying and stupid looking curves, avoid playing tracks that have one in them. keeps the game from looking corny to me

[xzamplez]

to avoid lame bike physics and bad cameras, avoid making curved driving lines. to avoid annoying and stupid looking curves, avoid playing tracks that have one in them. keeps the game from looking corny to me

Yes, but should the option be stripped, simply because people tend to abuse it? I, personally, don't think so.

Redlynx has used the curve very cleverly on some of the in game tracks (Way of the Ninja, Under Construction, Rock Steady, Elevation, Around the Ranch, Homerun, Downhill Dominator, Castle Crash, Prospector, etc.), and those tracks simply wouldn't feel the same without the curved driving lines. I do, however, know that some Redlynx tracks misuse the curve (Gigatrack, Harbor Havok, Redlynx Moto Jam, etc.).

[xzamplez]

to avoid lame bike physics and bad cameras, avoid making curved driving lines. to avoid annoying and stupid looking curves, avoid playing tracks that have one in them. keeps the game from looking corny to me

Yes, but should the option be stripped, simply because people tend to abuse it? I, personally, don't think so.

Redlynx has used the curve very cleverly on some of the in game tracks (Way of the Ninja, Under Construction, Rock Steady, Elevation, Around the Ranch, Homerun, Downhill Dominator, Castle Crash, Prospector, etc.), and those tracks simply wouldn't feel the same without the curved driving lines. I do, however, know that some Redlynx tracks misuse the curve (Gigatrack, Harbor Havok, Redlynx Moto Jam, etc.).

[stllbreathnbdy]

Here's my two cents- your both right?

Yes, turning is goofy, but it's not worth an argument. I really think with the physics engine the way it is, leaning into turns would cause tremendous problems with the bike on the driveline. Is momentum would constantly be fighting to make the bike slide. Think about this, all the terrible tracks that have objects half on the driveline. The bikes physics bug out like crazy, because the tire isn't sitting fully on the ground. Hell this game already has problems with the bikes contact with certain surfaces depending on speed and momentum, or just freak luck. With the engine the way it IS, right now, I think it would be a disaster if they implement the lean. However for the future, making an engine that works well with enabling a lean would look awesome.

On another note. These elite rider/track builders who abandon the curve, are being rediculous. There are some really fun things you can do with curves, just because it looks funny it's not going to ruin your track....unless we're talking 180s in mid air.

[rlmergeuser]

Well, he replied again... I added two more quotes to the OP:

It really wouldn't work for the reason that I mentioned previously. If you were going into a corner at full speed, leaning over realistically as you say, then they come to an obstacle on the turn that requires them to stop hard, what would happen? In order to maintain the same controls they would have to immediately return to the upright position in a fraction of a second. They only other way to do it would be to make the bike fall over or change the control? method to include lean control.

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point. I've already responded to this exact argument. What do you think happens in real life when a biker of ANY kind has to do a sharp turn? and then stop? You go from being banked for the turn to being upright quite quickly, but it's not instantaneous...

Now, I'd like to reply to some of the comments you guys have posted since I last checked this thread.

I understand your idea, and I think it would look bad. The rider would become a robot, and the leaning wouldn't look natural at all.

That depends entirely on how they programmed it. As I've said, if they managed to program realistic suspension and weight-shifting, I'm pretty sure they could program realistic leaning if they wanted to. Besides, even POORLY programmed leaning would look less stupid and robotic than how the rider currently handles drive line curves...

And in defense of the no leaning side: the position of the rider on the screen doesn't change, making it easier to recognize fine movement. If your rider was at different angles during turns, it could be harder to identify the riders position (posture).

This is a valid point. Well done, I have no counterargument.

Simply put, it is an unnecesary change when you consider the game has a serious problem, like tire glitching.

I obviously wouldn't be advocating this concept of leaning through curves if it were guaranteed to cause additional glitchyness within the game... My argument is only valid given the assumption that it could happen without impacting gameplay or causing glitches. Of course I wouldn't be suggesting it if there were no way to implement it without causing glitches... again though, this just comes down to programming, and I'm no expert. All I'm saying is that it would look better to have the rider lean through curves assuming that this could be accomplished without glitchy results... ugh.

Seriously though...i think the curved lines are stupid, they dont make sense and the on rails feeling disconnects me from the otherwise spot on physics of the game.

This expresses very well exactly how I feel. I hadn't thought of the term "on-the-rails" before, but it's indeed very accurate, and my reaction is the same as yours - it feels so very disconnected from the otherwise spot-on (albeit exaggerated) physics of the game. This is the only sentence I specifically wanted to reply to, but I give you a big +1 for your whole post.

anything that could increase the chance of the bike glitching would be a bad idea imo. and adding variable leaning would surely do that.

Again, I wouldn't be advocating this change if there were no way to implement it without causing glitches... I've covered this.

- it might mess up the way physics work in this game and how the rider lands

Again...

- adding banking on the ground but not in the air could make air turns even look way worse than they already are(now they already look awefull), adding banking in the air too probably doesn't look good either

I agree with this. I suggested a solution to the mid-air curves for RedLynx before Evo was even released. I suggested that if a rider was air-borne during a curve, he would simply continue to go straight and land off the drive-line, a message would pop up saying "off-course" or something like that, and you would have to use a fault to get back on the drive line. This would have prevented people from creating mid-air curves in the first place, and could have added an interesting element to the game. For example, you could have a big jump after which the drive-line continued straight for a while, but then had a curve. You would have to hit it at just the right speed to land right before the curve and get the best possible time without going off course. I thought it was a cool idea... but they didn't listen to me. In any case, it's certainly too late to fix it now.

Hes right, you HAVEN'T played the game, so you wouldn't know They absolutely didn't half *** the curves, people just use them idiotically sometimes.

Jarr? Really? So because I have't played this game I must have no understanding of the fundamental physics involved when turning on any two-wheeled vehicle in real life or in other motercycle-based games? I don't need to play to see that they simply look like crap in every replay I've ever seen on tracks with curves that are anything but REALLY wide or REALLY slow. I'm not complaining about the physics or anything else game-play related. This is purely visual, and I'm not making any claim that curved drive lines impact gameplay - they just LOOK bad. Therefore I believe I do have the right to complain about it.

I have two tracks with curves, you decide if I used them "stupidly" or unrealistically"

Sunset Docks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIBiSICdOHw

Sunset Docks works for the most part, because it's a VERY gradual curve throughout the entire track, and the track is technical enough that you never get a lot of speed.

Nature Trial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7AGTgkFF1o

Sorry Jarr, but this one looks like crap to me. The turns are gradual enough, but it's such a high-speed track that the lack of leaning is much more noticeable to me. Additionally, there are a couple of parts where it's obvious that the rider is turning quite significantly in mid-air after a big jump. The following times refer to Trials time - not YouTube time:

The turn at 0:16 looks really bad to me since the rider isn't leaning. It's sharp enough and at a high enough speed that it just looks really unrealistic and "on-the-rails" as the curves currently work.

The jump at 0:22 looks bad because the drive line continues to curve while the rider is air-borne.

The big downhill section at 0:44 looks bad for the same reason as the one at 0:16.

The big jump that immediately follows at 0:49 looks bad too, because you're still curving to the right as you hit it, but then you start curving to the left quite significantly in mid-air for a while before you land. This part bugs me more than anything else in the track.

Finally, the last big downhill curve at 0:53 looks bad just like the others. You're going too fast to not be leaning at all.

Note that my criticism of the mid-air turns is directed at you as a builder. My criticism of the on-ground turns that look bad is not directed at you. I think most of this track would actually look really bad-*** if the rider leaned realistically.

to avoid lame bike physics and bad cameras, avoid making curved driving lines. to avoid annoying and stupid looking curves, avoid playing tracks that have one in them. keeps the game from looking corny to me

+1. Coming from someone else who rides a bike in real life. Surprise, surprise.

Redlynx has used the curve very cleverly on some of the in game tracks (Way of the Ninja, Under Construction, Rock Steady, Elevation, Around the Ranch, Homerun, Downhill Dominator, Castle Crash, Prospector, etc.), and those tracks simply wouldn't feel the same without the curved driving lines. I do, however, know that some Redlynx tracks misuse the curve (Gigatrack, Harbor Havok, Redlynx Moto Jam, etc.).

+1 for this too. I couldn't believe it when I saw that even some in-game tracks misuse curves. I agree that they look great on tracks like Way of the Ninja though.

Yes, turning is goofy, but it's not worth an argument. I really think with the physics engine the way it is, leaning into turns would cause tremendous problems with the bike on the driveline. Is momentum would constantly be fighting to make the bike slide. Think about this, all the terrible tracks that have objects half on the driveline. The bikes physics bug out like crazy, because the tire isn't sitting fully on the ground. Hell this game already has problems with the bikes contact with certain surfaces depending on speed and momentum, or just freak luck. With the engine the way it IS, right now, I think it would be a disaster if they implement the lean. However for the future, making an engine that works well with enabling a lean would look awesome.

Yea, once again... if it's impossible to implement without causing glitches... bla bla bla.

On another note. These elite rider/track builders who abandon the curve, are being rediculous. There are some really fun things you can do with curves, just because it looks funny it's not going to ruin your track....unless we're talking 180s in mid air.

This is a subjective statement. We all draw the line in a different place, and I'll be the first to admit I'm probably WAY MORE picky about it than most... but still, I disagree with generalizing it in this way. 95% of curves look bad to me. Maybe 50% of them look bad to you, and only 10% look bad to someone else. I for one am glad that most of the really good builders have stopped using turns.

EDIT: Updated the OP again... I don't know why I'm still replying to this guy.

lol I'm not trolling! Its just a discussion.
The problem would be that it would need to be instantaneous, due to the nature of the game. If it wasn't then it would change the mechanics of the game.
To be honest I think having leaning implemented would look more unnatural than it does without it. Real life trials generally don't have high speeds or sharp, fast turns.
People just need? to learn to build better tracks. None of the Red Lynx tracks have sharp turns.

I still disagree, and your argument? makes no sense to me. Sure, people should build better tracks... but they don't. RedLynx could have easily made so many crappy tracks look better by just programming drive line turns differently. Finally, while it's less significant, several in-game tracks have turns that look pretty bad to me as well...