[missing] Invert Y-axis | Forums

[rlmergeuser]

As long as it's not made inverted by default... the current setup makes too much sense to switch. Why would I press up to rotate my camera downward?

Thats my point. but for me and all other inverterd players, Inverted Y-axis:On is defaul. Hense the OPTION to change like all other games.

And when was this standard change made? When I used to play FPS's, mouse forward was look up, mouse back was look down -- basically moving the same way my head does if I were looking at my mouse.

Read the long post i made. and to clarify, its is on consoles(controllers)not with mouse with mouse I also play "non-inverted" because thats how it always have been. and if u were a big fan of flight games, u would use a Joystick.

[rlmergeuser]

I originally posted in this thread saying it was needed (above) but now I've been using the editor a lot I don't even notice it anymore.

Honestly, it's no big deal, I think we're all used to it now.

now go back and play a fps game.. be prepared for frustration and getting used to it all over again (will take atleast a day minimum to be back on your game) now go back to the trials editor, and do it all over again...

sure its fine if you play only one game obviously.

[sparkierjonesz]

the camera controle here isn't the same as any another game i know because camera is controled by the cursor while editing unlike a fps or similar camera systems,

i have no idea what the demo allows you to do though because i bought full version the second it was available

What point are you trying to make by this statement exactly?

If it bugged you that i said "fps" i can inform you that all versions of Halo´s level editors and Farcry 2´s all add the option to "invert Y-axis". which is 'just like' the Trails editor except that in Trails you have the option to toggle the up/down rotation around camera pivot Off. (which is for the logic bricks part right?). The cursor does not change anything but causing delay in the rotation.

But the functions in all named editors are basicly all the same. Move up/down/left/right,rotate around camera pivot/selected objekt.
And for most people it does not matter if its a fps,editor,or a flight game(given that they use the same controller)

If you started out your gaming with flight games(like i did) it would make total sense with "inverted" Y-axis if its not already default on all of them) If you then want to play a fps games it is MUCH easier to just pick up and play if you change settings to Inverted Y-axis. This way the brain don have to ...reprogram...itself every time you change style of the game.


note how i say "INVERT" not "changing from right to wrong"

Sure, if you dont mind having you mechanics to all of a sudden invert your steering in a Formula 1 race(real or fake), keep arguing agains Inverted Y-axis

But i would like this thread to NOT turn into a inverted vs non-inverted like the rest of the ones ont the internet
So I will come back in a couple of months to see if there as been any update to the editor.

i was saying that your sticks don't really control the camera but the cursor

and in the editor your brain has to rethink this cursor control too sometimes when you change from looking horizontal to looking straight down because the cursor doesn't do anymore what it did when you were looking horizontal, because what used to be away from you has become going up etc
so even if they add invert their will still be awkwardness in cursor control

side note isn't inverting doing the opposite , and the opposite of right is wrong

i'm not against adding an option for it, it would be a good thing, but just trying to understand why you would not buy it if they didn't

[rlmergeuser]

(Yes im aware it hasn't been a couple of months yet. Shame on me.)

i was saying that your sticks don't really control the camera but the cursor

Yeah but why? i pointed out that the "cursor" does not matter a tiny bit in this situation, neither are you controlling the camera in a fight game, you controll the airplane witch make the camera follow,exacly like in this editor except that its a cursor and not a flying pig, and that it will delay the camera rotation until the cursor is in the edge of the screen (aka slow parenting)

the point is not WHAT you controll. but that it has the option the move down when i press upp, and up when i press down.(relative to the screen, not global world movement)

and in the editor your brain has to rethink this cursor control too sometimes when you change from looking horizontal to looking straight down because the cursor doesn't do anymore what it did when you were looking horizontal, because what used to be away from you has become going up etc
so even if they add invert their will still be awkwardness in cursor control

correct me if I'm wrong, but the cursor STILL moves up,down,left right(when camera is pointing straight down so no change on that part, the camera behavior however...well, that gibal lock, nothing new there.So no "confusion" there. and if there are for you, its nowhere near the Inverted Y-axis problem. And if i have to make a map looking downwards all the time, well then i would "strafe" to the left/right to move east/west and if i wanted to move "north/south" while watching down then i rotate the camera 90degrees. or...Just press down the right tumbstick to change controller layout. Bouth you and i know this i hope.

side note isn't inverting doing the opposite , and the opposite of right is wrong

The xbox itself has the option to automatically turn Invert Y-axis to "ON" in all games that has the option. So to call either of this settings wrong or right is...wait for it...wrong.




Not to be nagging but now that i found this video linked below, I have to requote you on:

the camera controle here isn't the same as any another game i know because camera is controled by the cursor while editing unlike a fps or similar camera systems,

At around 2.30 in the video, RedLynx "themselves" say "the sticks work simular to a first person game."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQG27...ailpage#t=145s

And after looking at the video without revisiting the game i have to say.
YES, yes it does. It behaves just like a fps system or any flycam i have tried on a console, except for the delay in rotation caused by the cursor. As i previusly mentioned.

And to be 100% honest, if this mode would not be used to fly around/rotate the camera, but JUST to move the cursor. it might not have been that big of a deal, but since this is how you orientate around the map. It IS a big deal to have the correct Y-axis setting.

i'm not against adding an option for it, it would be a good thing, but just trying to understand why you would not buy it if they didn't

Well,If i wasn't clear on that part, Heetsauce sums it up pretty good with:

now go back and play a fps game.. be prepared for frustration and getting used to it all over again (will take atleast a day minimum to be back on your game) now go back to the trials editor, and do it all over again...

sure its fine if you play only one game obviously.

I'm not ready to spend 1200ms points on a game that will make me play like a monkey in all the other games that i play.

[sparkierjonesz]

(Yes im aware it hasn't been a couple of months yet. Shame on me.)

i was saying that your sticks don't really control the camera but the cursor

Yeah but why? i pointed out that the "cursor" does not matter a tiny bit in this situation, neither are you controlling the camera in a fight game, you controll the airplane witch make the camera follow,exacly like in this editor except that its a cursor and not a flying pig, and that it will delay the camera rotation until the cursor is in the edge of the screen (aka slow parenting)

the point is not WHAT you controll. but that it has the option the move down when i press upp, and up when i press down.(relative to the screen, not global world movement)

and why doen't it matter what you control? and can't people drive cars backwards without any problems even though steering is reversed it doesn't takes a day to get back used too or anything like that, you just think of it as driving in a different way with different controls, not that it is easy to do at first and anything like that but you think in it differently and you control it differently

and in the editor your brain has to rethink this cursor control too sometimes when you change from looking horizontal to looking straight down because the cursor doesn't do anymore what it did when you were looking horizontal, because what used to be away from you has become going up etc
so even if they add invert their will still be awkwardness in cursor control

correct me if I'm wrong, but the cursor STILL moves up,down,left right(when camera is pointing straight down so no change on that part, the camera behavior however...well, that gibal lock, nothing new there.So no "confusion" there. and if there are for you, its nowhere near the Inverted Y-axis problem. And if i have to make a map looking downwards all the time, well then i would "strafe" to the left/right to move east/west and if i wanted to move "north/south" while watching down then i rotate the camera 90degrees. or...Just press down the right tumbstick to change controller layout. Bouth you and i know this i hope.

the sticks control the objects with 1 fixed axis (the vertical one) when you selected an object and the camera works completly local so camera control and object control doesn't match anymore when tilted alot
make an object move with your sticks localy and the rotate the object 90°, thats kinda the effect that happens

At around 2.30 in the video, RedLynx "themselves" say "the sticks work simular to a first person game."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQG27...ailpage#t=145s

And after looking at the video without revisiting the game i have to say.
YES, yes it does. It behaves just like a fps system or any flycam i have tried on a console, except for the delay in rotation caused by the cursor. As i previusly mentioned.


And to be 100% honest, if this mode would not be used to fly around/rotate the camera, but JUST to move the cursor. it might not have been that big of a deal, but since this is how you orientate around the map. It IS a big deal to have the correct Y-axis setting.

in a way it is similar to a fps in another way its nothing like it at all

but it does just move the cursor like on pc games where you just move your cursor and toughing the sides changes the camera, you can even change what the camera acts like

i'm not against adding an option for it, it would be a good thing, but just trying to understand why you would not buy it if they didn't

Well,If i wasn't clear on that part, Heetsauce sums it up pretty good with:

now go back and play a fps game.. be prepared for frustration and getting used to it all over again (will take atleast a day minimum to be back on your game) now go back to the trials editor, and do it all over again...

sure its fine if you play only one game obviously.

I'm not ready to spend 1200ms points on a game that will make me play like a monkey in all the other games that i play.

noone forces you to keep switching if said games all have an option to switch, you only have to switch once and you can still switch if it feels more comfortable in other games because they have the option and maybe some of them don't even require you to switch because your still used to it

and if it only takes a few hours(assuming heetsauce only games a few hours in that day, and don't underestimate the power of your brain to adapt, if you practice switching alot i'm sure your brain will get used to it and you'll be able to switch fast after you get used to it) to get used too and you have to learn the way the editor works anyway why not just combine them, it might feel awkward at first but you have to learn how the game works anyway

and 1200msp is just a bargain compared to the 100's of hours you will play this game, its one of those games that doesn't get old and you can just keep playing forever

[sparkierjonesz]

i just noticed i play some other games inverted too
inverted setting is on , pushing stick up is looking down, i think i even do in most games i play

time to addapt 0 sec

sometimes i do have to deal with awkward camera motion in new games( but thats just a part of learning the controls of the new game) but that doesn't take long to adapt too or i just switch to inverted if posible but after switching it remains awkward for a while because i was already adapting

[rlmergeuser]

as you clearly are having problems with read EVERYTHING I have been typing to you, or maybe you are to ignorant to understand. i will answer some of the questions/arguments in more than one way.

and why doen't it matter what you control?...

Because you are controlling it all with this! :

http://i.imgur.com/mkakQ.jpg



If this images doesn't help you undertsand that i meant by saying that, well sorry to be you. I won´t explain it any further.


http://i.imgur.com/t3jCF.jpg

...and can't people drive cars backwards without any problems even though steering is reversed it doesn't takes a day to get back used too or anything like that, you just think of it as driving in a different way with different controls, not that it is easy to do at first and anything like that but you think in it differently and you control it

1. read what i have typed before, and you will find:

Sure, if you dont mind having you mechanics to all of a sudden invert your steering in a Formula 1 race(real or fake), keep arguing agains Inverted Y-axis

OFC now we are not talking about Y-axis(but the Z).and if you are running out of stuff to complain about. Don´t bother picking that one up. Instead imagine the F1 car being a jetplane/submarine(superfast dodging and moving submarine then!!!)


2.STOP trying to add a fake problem/situation that aint a problem for anyone. In a attempt to put me of??(STOP adding variables to the situation like change direction in BOTH X-axis and Y/Z axis, whatever youd like to call the second one,(aka oftopic).


2.5 I will respond to it even tho was oftopic by saying:

Dude,this applies to fpscam/flycam aswell. It is common knowledge that changing the direction
¹you are moving ²of momentom.Also changes the direction you would turn to come to postion X. Not knowing this is what some people would call Woman driving(no pun intended to you girls)
I have no problem with this in a fps/flycam.
And I am sure noone else in here who can controll a fps/flycam with either Inverted or Non-Inverted Y-axis can do this aswell.(moving backwards and still having controll that is.).
So yes they can,i have never said anything else.

3. And here its the correct responce on my own "question" to you regarding the f1 car(if you thought that by inverting the steering I ment more than inverting Left/righ.Which i did not.

Yes, they would have had a problem with it, maybe even a immediate danger depending on if there is something unexpected happening or not. When it comes to quick decision like this(applies to fps games aswell if you are a hardcore gamer. ESPECIALLY in online gaming), it has to come become secound nature/be a spinal reflex. It´s bad enough to have wrong sensitivity changed. And with that said. om done here.

but it does just move the cursor like on pc games where you just move your cursor and toughing the sides changes the camera, you can even change what the camera acts like

Topic is about this fella

http://i.imgur.com/mkakQ.jpg
And having the option to invert Its rotation on the camera and movement on the cursor in the horizontal plane( ASLO KNOWN AS INVERT Y-axis!)
i want it Inverted ither way.

and since the cursor also is controlled by this thumbstick without any change of settings . it does NOT change the fact that the camera will look up while pulling the stick up, and look down if pulling the stick down untill it gets intersect by gimbal locking.Vice versa if enabling Invert Y axis. hence its totaly pointles in the fact that it does not change any varibles.(beside from slowdown"/"waitingtime" for the camera to rotate. Which i now have pointed out numerous of times.(and if you are going to ***** about the stat you activate when pressing down the stick that were the rightstick MOVES the camera. well, then just change all "camera rotate" to camera move" in my text.)

Edit:

noone forces you to keep switching if said games all have an option to switch, you only have to switch once and you can still switch if it feels more comfortable in other games because they have the option and maybe some of them don't even require you to switch because your still used to it

But it sure does sound like you try to force me to adapt to Non-Inverted Y-axis becasue trails evolved does not support Inverted. Im not going to make Non-inverted to my standard if that wasn't obvius enough.

i just noticed i play some other games inverted too
inverted setting is on , pushing stick up is looking down, i think i even do in most games i play

time to addapt 0 sec

somehow i find it VERY hard to belive that you have the precision to get any top position in a online fps right now. If you have no problem with it.Nice, now invert it back to Non-inverted and if you still have no problem. to you, superhuman.

sometimes i do have to deal with awkward camera motion in new games( but thats just a part of learning the controls of the new game) but that doesn't take long to adapt too or i just switch to inverted if posible but after switching it remains awkward for a while because i was already adapting

Yeah ofc there is stuff you have to adapt when going from one kind of game to another.The thing is. the whole "map editing gameplay controll" is nothing new to me for the xbox. But having to CHANGE,( not just "put saide for another layout as when changing from mouse to controller). what has become secound nature/be a spinal reflex is NOT acceptable.
Either way, I´m done explaining myself

If you want more meat on the bones, go here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...The-Conspiracy its the firs link the came up on google.

[jook13]

Am I the only inverted player that has never had any problem with the editor? For me a moving cursor mustn't be inverted, while a locked cursor must be inverted. Guess my brain is a bit more adaptive I certainly +1 the ideas though.

I am exactly like you I think. I need inverted with a 1st person shooter game, but this editor is different because of the moving cursor.

Still, why not have the option?

[sparkierjonesz]

redplayer no need for pictures like i don't understand or that i'm ignorant, i fully understand
but we are on oposite side on this
basicly your a "over my dead body but i want my inverse y-axis"
and i am a "i don't care about controls as long as they make sence" kinda guy

i'm just trying to understand you/giving examples that try to explain that the non inverted setup might not be as bad as you think

i decided to play a fps again for you and apperently i was playing "non inverted" before evo, after a while i got bored because i don't really like fps and decided to switch to anther game with a decent amount of fps elements that i apperently also played "non inverted"
for both games controls were awkward because i needed to adapt and they remainded awkward till after i quit
then i decided to play evo editor and the second it began it felt completly natural and even though i was adapting to a "non inverted" playstyle already i didn't feel i didn't feel like i got back used to "non inverted" like i experienced in evo editor

basicly what i'm thinking is what is quoted below, even if you need inverted in other games you don't neccesarly have to adapt every time you play. both are experienced editors and play inverted and have no problem with the controls like they are in evo. hence i didn't even know if i was playing inverted or not, and in some games i was even though i didn't realise it. i support inverting option but it works perfectly fine without it even for inverted fps players

Am I the only inverted player that has never had any problem with the editor? For me a moving cursor mustn't be inverted, while a locked cursor must be inverted. Guess my brain is a bit more adaptive I certainly +1 the ideas though.

I am exactly like you I think. I need inverted with a 1st person shooter game, but this editor is different because of the moving cursor.

Still, why not have the option?