the evolution of a technique | Forums

[kobe745]

Hi trials riders and Redlynx developers,

A new tread has been created by Malachyte in the general discussion section of trials HD titled 'evolution of a technique'. In this tread a technique is discussed used by the more skilled players. It allows you to significantly increased forward momentum and clockwise rotation speed. I took it to the test yesterday and managed to get a new worldrecord on TuboFlip within 30 minutes practicing with it.

It feels rather glitchy because it alters the physics that normally apply when playing trials. I think its a good idea to open a discussion about this technique in the Trials Evolution section aswell. We can asume that the physics engine used in Evolution will build on the one that was intalled in HD. Do we want this technique to be implemented in the new game? Are the developers aware that this can be done?

[Nytmair]

Its it really messing with physics tho?

The way I see it, your rear wheel is turning clockwise. When you slam on the brake, won't the tire almost "pull" in the brake in a clockwise motion as it is trying to stop, and as a result put a small amount of extra force on the motion of the overall bike?

It might be exaggerated like all physics in trials, but to me, it seems realistic.

I hope that makes sense... its hard to explain what I am picturing in my brain haha

[kobe745]

Its it really messing with physics tho?

The way I see it, your rear wheel is turning clockwise. When you slam on the brake, won't the tire almost "pull" in the brake in a clockwise motion as it is trying to stop, and as a result put a small amount of extra force on the motion of the overall bike?

It might be exaggerated like all physics in trials, but to me, it seems realistic.

I hope that makes sense... its hard to explain what I am picturing in my brain haha

lets take this example to show how powerfull this technique is: the world record jump!
- here is the former WR by Murdoc Loch
- and here is the new WR by Mongold13

As you can see the rotation speed is also increased when the frontwheel is stationary. This technique is very usefull in extreme and ninja tracks since it allows you to reach higher grounds.

I agree that it still looks realistic, even when physics are exaggerated, but the way you accomplish it isnt realistic at all (alternating gas and brake).

[Nytmair]

I know how to use it, and do so often on extreme/ninjas..
I was just commenting on how I personally think it is phsically realistic in the way it works.

[rlmergeuser]

i can see how pressing the brakes once would give you a tiny boost in angular momentum and make you lean forwards ever so slightly forwards. however, because of newtons laws, i cannot see how hitting the brakes multiple times will keep on giving you a boost because the tyre will have stopped spinning with the first hit of the brakes, removing that effect, and the tyre bouncing wont have any overall impact on the angle because it bounces exactly the same amount in both directions.

while trials is an arcade game i think this effect pushes it too far over the edge. you really shouldnt be able to flip the bike just by leaning forwards and pumping the brakes from what is almost a level position with almost no angular momentum and absolutely no forwards momentum

ps, i may have got momentum, speed and velocity mixed up in my explanation, but im sure you can see where im coming from

[rlmergeuser]

IMO to stop the effect would be to stop the real effect of jabbing the brakes on when the back wheel is spinning. it's not a small effect, it's a massive amount of energy. motocross and trials riders do it as a matter of course to alter the bike attitude in the air, in real life tirals riding a brake tap is used frequently when bunnyhopping and the back wheel needs to come up when attempting to clear a gap.

THD/EVO are games. they are not 100% realistic, never claimed to be. lets be honest, if they were realistic most people wouldn't get past the 'easy' tracks (which would be insane in real life).
I'd call it an exploit, rather than glitch

[Chicago__AJ]

i can see how pressing the brakes once would give you a tiny boost in angular momentum and make you lean forwards ever so slightly forwards. however, because of newtons laws, i cannot see how hitting the brakes multiple times will keep on giving you a boost because the tyre will have stopped spinning with the first hit of the brakes, removing that effect, and the tyre bouncing wont have any overall impact on the angle because it bounces exactly the same amount in both directions.

while trials is an arcade game i think this effect pushes it too far over the edge. you really shouldnt be able to flip the bike just by leaning forwards and pumping the brakes from what is almost a level position with almost no angular momentum and absolutely no forwards momentum

ps, i may have got momentum, speed and velocity mixed up in my explanation, but im sure you can see where im coming from

I think you need to watch some motor cross races in real life. Or watch some of Travis Pastrana's insane tricks. They often use the gas and brakes in air to instantly start a trick's rotation or stop movement completely to land.

[kobe745]

i can see how pressing the brakes once would give you a tiny boost in angular momentum and make you lean forwards ever so slightly forwards. however, because of newtons laws, i cannot see how hitting the brakes multiple times will keep on giving you a boost because the tyre will have stopped spinning with the first hit of the brakes, removing that effect, and the tyre bouncing wont have any overall impact on the angle because it bounces exactly the same amount in both directions.

while trials is an arcade game i think this effect pushes it too far over the edge. you really shouldnt be able to flip the bike just by leaning forwards and pumping the brakes from what is almost a level position with almost no angular momentum and absolutely no forwards momentum

ps, i may have got momentum, speed and velocity mixed up in my explanation, but im sure you can see where im coming from

I think you need to watch some motor cross races in real life. Or watch some of Travis Pastrana's insane tricks. They often use the gas and brakes in air to instantly start a trick's rotation or stop movement completely to land.

... but they dont go trigger happy on trottle and brake while in mid air to alter their rotation speed

[RetiredRonin]

I'm not sure that this will pertain to Trials Evolution as I haven't played the game to be able to test it. The physics are supposed to be close to Trials HD (because they worked well) but I don't know if it is a new engine or an updated version of the same physics engine used in Trials HD.

If it's a new engine this might be a moot discussion.

If it's an updated engine this still might be moot.

Maybe we should wait to pick apart the physics engine until the final game is live.

Regardless, I'm not merging/deleing this thread as it serves as a good theoretical discussion and I learned some things in the few posts already here.

[rlmergeuser]

I think you need to watch some motor cross races in real life. Or watch some of Travis Pastrana's insane tricks. They often use the gas and brakes in air to instantly start a trick's rotation or stop movement completely to land.

im not denying that hitting the brakes will make the bike lean forwards, and that hitting the power will make the bike lean back. (i dont know if you saw the world record RC car jump on the gadget show, but this effect is the only thing that allows you to land safely... or do a flip)
the glitch that is happening here is that hammering the brake after the back wheel has stopped carries on giving you the boost to get you over the obstacle. once the back wheel is stationary pressing the brakes should have no effect (aside from possibly making the back wheel move up/down)