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[xPrOFeSsi0NaL]

Trials is a multi-platform series so I don't see why it shouldn't be released on the PS3. Though I'm not a fan of the console, more people would get to enjoy the game that way.

Agreed

[Euphoric Fusion]

Trials is a multi-platform series so I don't see why it shouldn't be released on the PS3. Though I'm not a fan of the console, more people would get to enjoy the game that way.

Agreed

One thing that no one has considered here is the possible time it would take to develop the game on both consoles.
Xbox -> PC is more than likely the easiest and the most viable option, but Xbox -> PS3 is not so simple and would take alot of time, especially for a studio like Redlynx who are relatively small in comparison to "AAA" developers who have the time/money/staff/resources to develop multi platform.
I know that Redlynx are more than capable of developing on the different platforms available, but to my knowledge none of those titles are for more than one platform at a time.

And Shifty has a valid point about Sony's online service. I can't stand PS3/Sony and everything it stands for so it's of no consequence to me that it's not on PS3, but let's be honest, Trials Evolution would have had an unfortunate debut on PS3 if it was released last month and there is no telling what impact that has had on PS3's forseeable future.
Redlynx did the smart thing in my opinion. They have built a game that is based around OUR feedback from Trials HD, and for that we should be grateful and humbled that there is a develloper out there that actually listens to it's fans.
Even if it's a timed exclusive, we will know that it was us Xbox gamers that made the difference.

[RetiredRonin]

Even if it's a timed exclusive, we will know that it was us Xbox gamers that made the difference.

I actually disagree, if it weren't for the Trials 2 SE beasts, we wouldn't be playing Trials on our Xbox 360's.

I know that there was quite a bit of anger from them over Trials HD being an Xbox exclusive after they played T2SE and gave extensive feedback.

As a game developer Redlynx has to look at what game they want to make, and then select the best platform to ensure the highest number of sales. The Xbox 360's Marketplace has proven itself as a viable game market for Trials games.

I don't want to sound like a know it all or something, but when you have over 2 million sales for a title (DLC an Core) as an arcade game then a sequel for the same platform is really a no-brainer.

I also believe that this was the main reason for developing Trials HD for a console. I don't know how many copies of Trials 2 SE sold, but I am willing to guess that the revenue generated by the console version of Trials far exceeds the computer versions.

As a company you need to do what is good for your company. With the recent attacks on the Playstation Network and the pledges by hacking groups to continue these attacks, and the Class Action Lawsuits being filed over personal data stolen by Sony's inability to protect it's users information, I don't think that right now would be a time when I would put out a digital download on their system.

[Euphoric Fusion]

Very well made point sir

[rlmergeuser]

Not necessarily. Sometimes companies fork over more money for making a game an exclusive since people have to purchase their console to play it.

Definitely not for an Indie-Title that is only downloadable. At least I can't imagine it. Sure, maybe MS gave them a couple hundred thousand bucks. When they could make at least 5 million by bringing it to PSN I don't think thats such a good call (pulling these numbers out of my nose though).

Multi-platform releases can also be complicated since you'd have to work it out so that it's released on each platform simultaneously.

Castle Crashers was released on PSN like 2 years after it came to Xbox Live. Sure, its an extreme example. But other games also came out first on Xbox Live and only later made their way to PSN. I don't see any problem with that.

With the current state of Sony's Online Service, I wouldn't put out a game available exclusively as a digital download on it.

The "up and running" state, with 90% the activity of before the outage? Not to bad an idea if you ask me.
And seriously, there's a ton of awesome PSn exclusives (just as there are good Xbox Live exclusives).

I just don't get why anyone would do such a thing (at least not with an indie title).

I can't stand PS3/Sony and everything it stands for so it's of no consequence to me that it's not on PS3, but let's be honest, Trials Evolution would have had an unfortunate debut on PS3 if it was released last month and there is no telling what impact that has had on PS3's forseeable future.

What does Sony stand for?
Tons of better exclusive titles than Xbox? Not f*cking PC gamers by not releasing exlusive software on its own OS (because they have none - the absurd thing being that Sony is still a huge force in PC gaming with its MMOs, while Microsoft isn't a force anymore at all... man I hate them)? Free online gaming? Having a more open platform to developers than MS?

Yeah, I hate these things too...

As a game developer Redlynx has to look at what game they want to make, and then select the best platform to ensure the highest number of sales.

[/quote]

Or, you know, select all three viable platforms and make twice as much money.

[xPrOFeSsi0NaL]

Ulix FTW!!!

[RetiredRonin]

If you don't still see the problems being encountered on the Playstation network then good for you. Just for example I have not been able to reset a password for my account because that server is down, and has been down for over 4 days.

I also think it's funny that you are using the "it's free" argument. Yeah, it's free to get your personal info stolen from Sony's lousy security. A fact that may well end up costing Sony a rather large amount of money. Maybe if people actually paid for the service then there wouldn't have been a problem but you're right, it's free.

I wonder how many millions of dollars those same Indie Developers made in the PSN in the last couple months. I bet it's a lot closer to ZERO than the large number you pulled out of your ***.

I also need to state that Sony dropped the ball when they did away with the Alternate OS feature. It was a huge selling point to many people I know and it has been snatched from them. If you are going to offer it, and allow it, then keep if around for people who still want it.

Redlynx partnered with Microsoft on Trials HD which is why Trials HD will not be on another console. it's also a factor in why there isn't going to be a Trials HD 2. I understand, from statements made by Redlynx, that Microsoft own partial rights to the Trials HD name.

I love how you mention that both consoles have very good exclusives in one statement, and in the very next you lament about how poor the Xbox exclusives stack up against the PS3, this is a matter of taste, and I don't think I am being too far off point by mentioning that Trials HD and Trials Evolution are both Xbox exclusives. By partnering with Microsoft, developers are given better access to information and the physical technological assets (dev kits) needed to properly test and deploy game builds. Your lack of understanding here should lead you to research at least this point before you try to argue your side from what seems to be a total fog of incomprehension.

You also pointed out that Microsoft doesn't have a good PC based gaming strategy and on that point I MUST ask where your head is at. If you can name 5 high grossing games produced in the last 2 years that were not available for a Windows powered computer then I will cede to your point. As it is, I fear you are talking about things with which you have no real information other than a need to try to skew facts to fit your point.

Sony, when developing for the PC, is reliant on Microsoft to allow it's users to deploy their software. So even when Sony wins on PC, Microsoft wins.

I also enjoy how you say that Microsoft doesn't have any in house exclusives. If you play a game in the Xbox, and it says Microsoft Game Studios, then it's an in-house or partnered game. Halo 4 is a Microsoft title. Love it or hate it it will sell millions of copies. gears of War 3, Forza 4, they are all sequels that will sell millions. They are exclusives as well.

The whole "exclusives" argument is ignorant in it's subjectiveness. People enjoy different games and different exclusive titles appeal to different people. Let's just drop that here. You don't like the exclusives offered by Microsoft this year. Ok, that doesn't make them bad. Your opinion on them doesn't really matter in conjunction with this thread.

Apparently Redlynx thought that developing a partnership with Microsoft for Trials was a good enough idea and offered a positive risk to gain factor that they didn't pass it up.

Developing a game across multiple platforms is easier for large studios. Redlynx, despite recent success, is not one of those large studios. The team (correct me if I am wrong Jorma/sebbbi/Jorma) was 10 people. I don't see how it would be possible for them to justifiably build the same game 3 times. I also don't know what experience they have programming for PS3. From what I understand, from research, building a game for the PC using XNA is the exact same as building it for the Xbox and that both use codes that most software code monkeys learned in school. The PS3 architecture (again, from what I understand,) is different. This make porting difficult and, for inexperienced coders, more costly by forcing the rewriting of previously working code.

You are not Redlynx.

I am not Redlynx.

We have no idea as to the structure or details of the partnership. Speaking about how much better they would have had it in developing an Indie title on multiple platforms for their first console title is pure ignorant speculation on anyone's behalf, including mine, unless they are privileged to that information.

I highly doubt that you are. I know that I am not.

All in all, you argument is speculative conjecture with no real basis in fact.

[rlmergeuser]

I really didn't want to go all out Console War, but hey, here you have it:

If you don't still see the problems being encountered on the Playstation network then good for you. Just for example I have not been able to reset a password for my account because that server is down, and has been down for over 4 days.

Why didn't you change it right after the PSN went up? All the people I know did it in the first couple of days and encountered no problems. Its been back online for 3 weeks now...

I also think it's funny that you are using the "it's free" argument. Yeah, it's free to get your personal info stolen from Sony's lousy security. A fact that may well end up costing Sony a rather large amount of money. Maybe if people actually paid for the service then there wouldn't have been a problem but you're right, it's free.

I wonder how many millions of dollars those same Indie Developers made in the PSN in the last couple months. I bet it's a lot closer to ZERO than the large number you pulled out of your ***.

Why are you talking about "months"? Its been down for 23 days, the store for ~40 days. And as Sony has stated at E3, network activity is now at 90% the levvel of before the outage.

Its also telling that none of the (amazing) PSN-only developers has jumped ship in that time (either by going bankrupt, or by going multiplatform), so it couldn't have been that bad for them.

I also need to state that Sony dropped the ball when they did away with the Alternate OS feature. It was a huge selling point to many people I know and it has been snatched from them. If you are going to offer it, and allow it, then keep if around for people who still want it.

Sure, its not nice. But how many people used it, exactly? And its not like MS ever had the feature.

Redlynx partnered with Microsoft on Trials HD which is why Trials HD will not be on another console. it's also a factor in why there isn't going to be a Trials HD 2. I understand, from statements made by Redlynx, that Microsoft own partial rights to the Trials HD name.

Okay, sure. Maybe. So the don't own the partial rights to the new Trials game. All good then for a PS3 version. Or PC, I don't even need a PS3 version, I'd be happy if it was on PC.

I love how you mention that both consoles have very good exclusives in one statement, and in the very next you lament about how poor the Xbox exclusives stack up against the PS3, this is a matter of taste,

To a certain degree its a matter of taste. What I meant was (and I'm not stretching that far when I say that is true, in the sense that most gamers would agree):
The PS3 has better retail exclusives. This is especially true if you own a decent PC.
The PS3 and Xbox are more or less on par when it comes to download exclusives.

Which is, as I mentioned, stupid. The Indies should just start porting their stuff. Luckily it looks like I'll be getting Limbo after all, since its coming to Steam. One intelligent developer.

and I don't think I am being too far off point by mentioning that Trials HD and Trials Evolution are both Xbox exclusives. By partnering with Microsoft, developers are given better access to information and the physical technological assets (dev kits) needed to properly test and deploy game builds. Your lack of understanding here should lead you to research at least this point before you try to argue your side from what seems to be a total fog of incomprehension.

I might have no understanding of Dev Kits and the like. What I do know though is that there are many amazing Indie games, mady by small studios, that are both on Xbox and PS3. So it cannot be that difficult to properly "test and and deploy game builds", even if you aren't exclusive.

You also pointed out that Microsoft doesn't have a good PC based gaming strategy and on that point I MUST ask where your head is at. If you can name 5 high grossing games produced in the last 2 years that were not available for a Windows powered computer then I will cede to your point.

Games made by Microsoft first and second party developers (and games published by MS themselves)? I guess thats what you're talking about, because ovbviously MS has no control over 3rd Party publishers.

Okay then, lets see what (noteworthy) games came out in the last 2 years... we have Halo: ODST, Lips, Forza 3, Alan Wake, Crackdown 2, Halo Reach, Fable 3, Dance Central. Thats it.

So Microsoft doesn't really have that many real excluives at all (as I mentioned before).
And of these eight games exactly one came out for PC. The only worthwile exclusive coming this year, Gears of War 3, will also never make its way to PC (which probably has some contractual reason between Epic and MS).

Sony, when developing for the PC, is reliant on Microsoft to allow it's users to deploy their software. So even when Sony wins on PC, Microsoft wins.

Why, because they have to have Windows installed?
Haha, very funny... since almost everybody has Windows installed. And MS doesn't get any extra money. Also, everybody can just develop for Windows without any permission by MS. So no, you are wrong. Microsoft gains nothing.

I also enjoy how you say that Microsoft doesn't have any in house exclusives. If you play a game in the Xbox, and it says Microsoft Game Studios, then it's an in-house or partnered game. Halo 4 is a Microsoft title. Love it or hate it it will sell millions of copies. gears of War 3, Forza 4, they are all sequels that will sell millions. They are exclusives as well.

See what I said above.

Eight games in the last 2 years. Six if you don't include Lips (a SingStar knockoff) and Dance Central.
Now if I look at Sony's list, I count 18, and that only includes games published by Sony that aren't either cheap Move- or Party-games, and it doesn't include games by Nippon Ichi (e.g. Disgaea) and Konami (Yakuza 3 & 4).
Otherwise I'd have arround 40.

The whole "exclusives" argument is ignorant in it's subjectiveness. People enjoy different games and different exclusive titles appeal to different people. Let's just drop that here. You don't like the exclusives offered by Microsoft this year. Ok, that doesn't make them bad. Your opinion on them doesn't really matter in conjunction with this thread.

Okay, sure. Subjectiveness. The thing is, that the experiences MS is known for in their exclusives, I can also have on PS3 (many apart from Alan Wake and ****ty Kinect games).

If I want to play good shooters I can play Killzone or Resistance, if I want to race I can play GT5, if I want a cover based shooter I can play Uncharted (sure, Gears of War is a lot more action-heavy), Open World Action-Adventure, I'll play Infamous.

On top of that, the PS3 offers experiences that just cannot be had on Xbox. Little Big Planet (2 Games), ModNation Racers, God of War III, Heavy Rain, Socom 4, Motor Storm, MLB The Show, MAG, Demon's Souls, etc.

You don't have to like any of these. But you have to appreciate that the PS3 offers a lot more variety when it comes to (real, not "Also on PC") retail exclusives.

Apparently Redlynx thought that developing a partnership with Microsoft for Trials was a good enough idea and offered a positive risk to gain factor that they didn't pass it up.

Sadly, that seems to be the case.

Developing a game across multiple platforms is easier for large studios. Redlynx, despite recent success, is not one of those large studios. The team (correct me if I am wrong Jorma/sebbbi/Jorma) was 10 people. I don't see how it would be possible for them to justifiably build the same game 3 times.

Ask any of the many Indies that brought their games to three (or at least two) platforms how they did it.

I also don't know what experience they have programming for PS3. From what I understand, from research, building a game for the PC using XNA is the exact same as building it for the Xbox and that both use codes that most software code monkeys learned in school.

Then bring it to PC at least, for heavens sake!

The PS3 architecture (again, from what I understand,) is different. This make porting difficult and, for inexperienced coders, more costly by forcing the rewriting of previously working code.

True. But it can be (and has been) done by many small indie studios.

[rlmergeuser]

Trials probably wouldn't work on PS3. The Dualshock 3 controller's triggers are too crappy for precise control.

[crazhalo]

I got a ps3 and a xbox 360. And im 95% at my xbox. My ps3 is having collecting dust. I enjoyed infamous with the welcome back tough.
When i buyed the ps3 i thought fnally having some new and other games. Buth i didn't liked killzone, heavy rain, ressistance, and all those other weird ps3 games out there. I liked god of war 3, ratched and clank series, uncharted1-2,littlebigplanet 1 and 2. And thats it. I enjoy my xbox a lot more mainly because the nice xbox-live out there. And a stupid point with ps3 is the massive updates. With littlebigplanet 1 i had 1gb patch+ installing, was 1-2 hours... the installing is stupid on ps3. Plus a downside with ps3 is u cant log in with 2 accounts wtf? If i ever knew that i never ever would buyed the system. I like to play with my brother on the xbox getting both saving and getting achievements. Buth ps3 failed with that. Buth ps3 is a good system, buth sony just failed with a lot of small things that just are frustrating.