Ninja Track Video Leaderboard | Forums

[rlmergeuser]

TBNSoty - 090-6112-xxxx

Ok, although I can't see it there's obviously an alternate end point somewhere back there since the timer stops. I think we need to re-address this issue.

If there were hundreds of players competing fiercely on these Ninja tracks then I would definitely see the need to fix design flaws like this, but again, there are really only a handful, and you seem to be the only one who really cares about taking the time to look for alternate end points and exploitable design flaws.

It's obviously necessary for RedLynx to make sure that none of their in-game tracks have alternate end points or design flaws like this - including any custom tracks that made it into the game in the Big Thrills DLC.

However for custom tracks it's really a different scenario. I'm sure that when QcChopper originally made The Complex he had no clue that there would eventually be "official competition" on it, and he probably added all the alternate routes and end points just to give the track replay value and make it fun to explore. The same thing goes for this TBNSoty track. He probably made it just to have a few of his friends try it out and added the alternate end point just for fun to see if anyone would find it.

As for design flaws like those in the older versions of Corporate Ladder, Trials Hero, or Hard Landing - Obviously it would be nice if flaws like this didn't exist, but it's gonna happen from time to time with custom tracks.

The act of bringing design flaws and alternate end points like this to everyone's attention only results in a bunch of hassle for me as well as the person who created the track. I have to message them to ask if they can remove the alternate end point or fix a design flaw, etc. They have to update the track, I have to re-play though it to make sure they didn't change anything else (which is especially a pain with difficult Level 3 tracks like this TBNSoty one - it took me almost an hour just to pass it "the legitimate way" since I timed out once.) I then have to make it clear in the OP that there is an updated version and only that one counts, etc. etc.

For the in-game tracks there are literally hundreds of thousands of people "submitting" replays and times in an automated fashion. With most of these Ninja tracks there are like two or three people submitting replays in a much less automated fashion (by me adding them to the OP). It shouldn't be that hard for me to make a rule about this, especially since you are literally the only person who bothers to look for alternate end points or design flaws in Ninja tracks. In fact, any other replays that took advantage of such design flaws only showed up after you posted yours!

You mentioned before that it would be difficult to draw the line in a clear way. Well here's my clear way:

Utilizing alternate end points or design flaws that allow you to bypass 50% or more of a track will render your score and replay unfit for these leaderboards.

Overcoming obstacles using alternate and/or unintended methods is completely acceptable. Utilizing shortcuts whether intended or unintended, is also completely acceptable provided that in doing so you don't skip 50% or more of a track.

This means that pushing explosives out of your way like in Ye Scurvy Dog, Concrete Hell, or Certain Death is fine. Taking unintended shortcuts like in Hellzone is fine, because this only skips a few obstacles - far less than 50% of the track.

I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me on this, but I'm going to make it an official rule and add it to the first post underneath the OP.

Managing these leaderboards is practically becoming like a second full time job for me, and while I enjoy a lot of aspects of the "job", frankly I'm tired of pretending that these leaderboards are as official as the in-game ones. They're not. It's just a f*cking forum post updated manually by one person. Many people who create these custom Ninja tracks don't know about this thread and have no idea that there will be any official competition on their tracks. Therefore they obviously don't/can't play-test and bug-fix their tracks to the degree that RedLynx has to for the official in-game tracks.

It seems the fact that I dedicate so much time and energy to this "job" should give me the right to lay down a few ground rules and regulations, and personally I believe them to be completely within reason. It's not like I'm being so anal that I'm saying "You have to do every obstacle in the intended way and not take any shortcuts or push any explosives."

Adding the italicized rule above to the post underneath the OP seems like a fair solution. I'm tired of wasting my time and energy nagging people to update their tracks just to make sure that Murdoc can't exploit them.

Murdoc - I'm sorry to single you out like this, but the fact is that there is really no other Ninja rider who even bothers to look for design flaws, much less upload replays of them for everyone to see. Now I've made a clear-cut rule. Think of it like OB in Disc Golf. You can exploit design flaws as much as you want, and even submit your times on TrialsHD.net if you feel so inclined, but those replays won't be added to this leaderboard. Likewise I can ignore OB rules in Disc Golf as much as I want when I'm just playing for fun by myself or with a few friends, but if I ever want to compete officially then I'll obviously have to recognize them.

/End of rant.

[MurdocLoch]

Utilizing alternate end points or design flaws that allow you to bypass 50% or more of a track will render your score and replay unfit for these leaderboards.

Overcoming obstacles using alternate and/or unintended methods is completely acceptable. Utilizing shortcuts whether intended or unintended, is also completely acceptable provided that in doing so you don't skip 50% or more of a track.

This means that pushing explosives out of your way like in Ye Scurvy Dog, Concrete Hell, or Certain Death is fine. Taking unintended shortcuts like in Hellzone is fine, because this only skips a few obstacles - far less than 50% of the track.

I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me on this, but I'm going to make it an official rule and add it to the first post underneath the OP.

I agree - this is a good and fair call

The act of bringing design flaws and alternate end points like this to everyone's attention only results in a bunch of hassle for me as well as the person who created the track. I have to message them to ask if they can remove the alternate end point or fix a design flaw, etc. They have to update the track, I have to re-play though it to make sure they didn't change anything else (which is especially a pain with difficult Level 3 tracks like this TBNSoty one - it took me almost an hour just to pass it "the legitimate way" since I timed out once.) I then have to make it clear in the OP that there is an updated version and only that one counts, etc. etc.

You don't HAVE to do any of these things - You choose to - It's only a hassle because you make it one - it's your OCD, not mine

Managing these leaderboards is practically becoming like a second full time job for me, and while I enjoy a lot of aspects of the "job", frankly I'm tired of pretending that these leaderboards are as official as the in-game ones. They're not. It's just a f*cking forum post updated manually by one person. Many people who create these custom Ninja tracks don't know about this thread and have no idea that there will be any official competition on their tracks. Therefore they obviously don't/can't play-test and bug-fix their tracks to the degree that RedLynx has to for the official in-game tracks.

Again, nobody is asking you to do anything - you choose to update the leaderboards as frequently as you do - and you chose to take over the leaderboards from jhop - as you pointed out when he was running the show I had submitted underground 2 ninja and a month later it was still not updated - that's why you asked to take over - but no one was complaining that jhop didn't update - I think if you are tired of managing the leaderboards only update them once a month - or once a quarter - it really doesn't matter as you said it's just a f*cking forum post updated manually by one person - so take it easy man

[rlmergeuser]

You don't HAVE to do any of these things - You choose to - It's only a hassle because you make it one - it's your OCD, not mine

You're right. It's like the battle of my OCD Vs. yours! (Just referring back to how you said your OCD doesn't allow you to go "the slow way" when exploitable design flaws and alternate end points do exist.)

Again, nobody is asking you to do anything - you choose to update the leaderboards as frequently as you do - and you chose to take over the leaderboards from jhop - as you pointed out when he was running the show I had submitted underground 2 ninja and a month later it was still not updated - that's why you asked to take over - but no one was complaining that jhop didn't update - I think if you are tired of managing the leaderboards only update them once a month - or once a quarter - it really doesn't matter as you said it's just a f*cking forum post updated manually by one person - so take it easy man

Again, you're right. I'm sorry if I was a ****... I was just getting a little frustrated with the whole design flaw/alternate end exploitations. I enjoy updating the OP with new replays and testing out new tracks as frequently as I do - it was only the aspect of getting people to "fix" their tracks that was starting to become tiresome for me.

I guess the bottom line is that I had unrealistic expectations when taking over from jhop. Whether or not he updated the OP there were like 2 new tracks and 10 new replays added per month to the thread itself. Now it's gotten to the point that this many new tracks and replays are added practically on a daily basis. Not to sound cocky, but I guess that's what I get for making the whole idea of Ninja tracks appealing to more people by the way I organized the OP and how well I keep it up-to-date.... also promoting Ninja tracks in general with my Ninja Promo video.

I do want this responsibility. The problem once again is my OCD. I feel like either I should do the job right or not do it at all. To be honest I really didn't enjoy playing most of the TBNSoty or dezYT tracks at all... but the way I see it my job is to analyze tracks for their difficulty, regardless of how poorly designed or "un-fun" they are to play. It just doesn't feel right for me to say to someone "Yea, your tracks are Ninja enough, but they suck so I'm not going to add them." I felt like I had to play all of them all the way through not only to rate them appropriately but also to verify that they were actually possible to pass. For several of them I was convinced that they were Level 3 tracks just a few obstacles in, but I didn't want to add any tracks to the Pending Submissions that were potentially impossible to pass. (Especially considering how sloppily these TBNSoty & dexYT tracks were designed and named...)

Anyway, Murdoc - I'm really glad you approve of my added rule. It's certainly important to me that you still enjoy these leaderboards as much as I do since you and I contribute more to them than anyone else, hands down.

I'm glad that this rule resolves the issue of exploitable design flaws and alternate end points. For now I will continue to deal with the responsibility of having to play-test tracks I don't enjoy for "the greater good." The rest of the aspects of this "job" I really do enjoy.

[rlmergeuser]

2 Good times :

Fort Visceral - 47.XXX

Ahriman - 1:33.XXX

Just wish I had a USB Stick!

[xPrOFeSsi0NaL]

Sulfuric 0 faults 20.133

[eH reH eH reH]

^ fast run I changed the plat time to 27 and made the end a little harder per your suggestion. I had plat time at 20secs because when I first played it out of the editor I got 19.xxx and I had to go to work so I just set it at 20 and messaged everyone and left. After fixing the plat time and a few bugs I haven't been able to get sub 20 again even knowing the speedrun line I put in, which pretty much is what your run looks like.

[jook13]

Pure Trials 2 1:02.607
Pure Trials 3 58.753
Pure Trials 4 41.819

[xPrOFeSsi0NaL]

^ fast run I changed the plat time to 27 and made the end a little harder per your suggestion. I had plat time at 20secs because when I first played it out of the editor I got 19.xxx and I had to go to work so I just set it at 20 and messaged everyone and left. After fixing the plat time and a few bugs I haven't been able to get sub 20 again even knowing the speedrun line I put in, which pretty much is what your run looks like.

Yea under 20 seconds is pretty insane. I mean i cant even come close to this run at all haha. I cant even get below 21 now. This run was just that one beast run. So a 20 seconds platinum was definitely now good. 27 is fine. You could have lowered that to like 23 or 24 if you even wanted to. But its cool. Overall nice track and not bad being on the ninja leaderboards.

[TheMovement81]

...Just played pruppets ninja as well. I think that could possibly be a level 3. Its pretty tough. Made it to maybe the 4th or 5th cp and was at over 70 faults and just quit cause i couldn't beat it.

In my opinion Pruppets Pepperidge is probably a level 3 also. The first time I played it I finished with about 230 faults. I'll need to play it some more to really determine it, but if this one's still in the air Malachyte, my vote goes to level 3 at this point.

Edit: Eh, on my second run I finished with 82 faults, and I noticed it's in the level 2 section of the pending submissions. I'd have to agree with that and say that level 2 is accurate now.

[rlmergeuser]

Hello Ninjas! Some says that my Stangenseries goes to a Ninjalevel. I`ve got no video of my best runs but xXDonReneXx made a vid of StangenNeverDies1-3.
Follow this link to watch it. http://www.youtube.com/user/xXDonRen...21/tJF5V22fF8c
The Stangenseries includes nine tracks, all extreme rated. If somebody want to test the other tracks feel free to send a FR to OpossumBlase.
StangenNeverDies1-3 are more easier than the other ones but that is just my opinion.