Senior Member
Haha I know it's not ninja. I'm slowly working my way through extremes until I can do a ninja without being embarrassed about my number of faults or timeOriginally Posted by Malachyte
I moved Zion Project by jhop420 from Level 2 to Level 1.
This is yet another example of Murdoc's "acquired vs. unacquired skills" argument.
Although my initial run on this track was terrible - leading me to believe it was a Level 2, after learning the weird and unique obstacles it actually wasn't that hard - I was able to 0-fault it in about half an hour.
I try to take this type of thing into account when initially analyzing a track, but sometimes I just get it wrong. It's very common for unique obstacles to be difficult the first time around, but still remain challenging once the right skills are learned (like Dusty Dawn). I assumed this would be the case with Zion Project too, but I was wrong.
Senior Member
Pure Trials 8,9, and 10
8=40.599
9=58.459
10=57.987
Member
Member
well that blackbelt top route is an intended alternate route - you know like a time saver - like the top route in container rush - also the route on the complex is obviously an intended route - really if you want to get into technicalities, Lestropie took an alternate route on badlands and on bounce - How I feel about it is the leaderboards should be just like they are in game - there is nothing denoting how or why someone has the time they got - that's what watching the replay is forOriginally Posted by Malachyte
Fair enough. These are just legitimate shortcuts that skip a portion of the track.Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
Of course. Qc himself has a video showing all of the alternate routes and finishes. I'm not trying to say your run wasn't legitimate, but in this example you may as well have been playing a different track. My main interest is really just to let people see at a glance the difference between the fastest run on one route vs. the fastest run on another. Personally I would want to know - without having to click on all the replays - what's the fastest run overall and what's the fastest run on the "main route", because especially with The Complex it's basically like different tracks entirely.Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
I was really curious to see the fastest run on the intended route of Underground in the main game, and this was a major pain in the *** - I had to scroll down for pages to find it. Of course there aren't as many runs on these Ninja leaderboards but the principle is still the same.
Ok, but this falls into the same category as Black Belt or Container Rush.Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
Right. You've convinced me already that all runs where the rider finishes the track are legitimate, even with a case like Corporate Ladder. I guess it's just a personal interest of mine to see the best replays on the main route, whether alternate routes are intended or not. Again I'm not trying to discredit your runs, but I feel like shortcuts on Black Belt, Badlands, or Bounce are just that - little shortcuts. But the alternate route on Corporate Ladder or The Complex is so incredibly different from the main route the there should be a clear indication that they are indeed alternate routes. Not "wrong" routes or "cheater" routes - just alternate routes.Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
In theory us Ninja riders could have completely separate competition on the different routes in The Complex - in effect it would be pretty much like competing on separate tracks. Same goes for Corporate Ladder - players could compete on who could do the bailout route fastest and who could do the intended route fastest. Again, they are both legitimate methods - just different. If they are both grouped together with no distinction then there would be no reason for anyone to ever take the main route again on either of these tracks because the alternate route is both easier and faster - which is not the same as shortcuts - they are usually faster, but also more difficult.
haha your 0 fault community thing is pretty sick. nice mal
edit: i found it very clever. it might motivate some more people to zero fault level 2 and 3 tracks..maybe even add to the list. good job sir
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honestly - I think any track that has an alternate end point should not be included in the leaderboards - one of the main reason i'm making videos of these tracks is to expose the flawed nature of them - but also like i said before it's because they allow me to finish the track as fast as possible with the least amount of faults - after all that is the point of the game - if you provide a way to finnish (or 7 ways) then you can't expect people to not utilize it. (double negative) - as much as it sucks I think if we are to keep these tracks included they need to be adjusted to meet competition standards (like the in game tracks) - Remember This - redlynx fixed this ending so this was not possible and I think we should do the same
Thanks! That was my exact intention - to help motivate players to go for 0-fault runs on tracks that have not yet been 0-faulted.Originally Posted by stickz027
Well of course, that would be ideal. But since these aren't in-game tracks it's entirely up to Qc and jhop if they feel like "fixing" their tracks. It wouldn't be that hard for Corporate Ladder, but Qc clearly put a ton of work into all the alternate routes in The Complex, and for people that just want to play the track for fun and explore it, they can be kinda fun to check out.Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
However I feel like since we are a pretty tight knit community here of Ninja riders it should be pretty easy to come up with a solution that doesn't involve "fixing" the tracks. After all we are really only a handful of riders compared to the tens of thousands that play the in-game tracks.
Either we should just keep track of the different routes on Corporate Ladder and The Complex separately like I've done with adding "(Alternate Route)", or we should agree that only the "main routes" count - but I know this last option was shot down by several people before.
Alternatively (no pun intended) I could actually list the different routes as completely separate tracks like this:
Corporate Ladder
--0--Malachyte -1:04.535
--0--jhop420 - 1:26.982
Corporate Ladder (Alternate Route)
--0--Murdoc Loch - 41.462
_________________________
The Complex
--13--QcChopper - 3:32.914
--45--Zoidberg747 - 4:07.245
The Complex (Alternate Route 1)
--0--Murdoc Loch - 2:02.001
The benefit of doing it this way would be that the different routes could actually be placed more accurately in different Levels. For example I think the Alternate Route you did on The Complex is more like a Level 1 track, whereas the main route is still a Level 2. And also as I said before, this way players could have separate competition on the different routes - which would actually motivate people to try and 0-fault The Complex on the main route. If someone finds an alternate route on a track (like some of the others on The Complex) that's so easy it's not even Ninja, then that route wouldn't count for the Ninja leaderboards at all.
If these leaderboards were as vast as the in-game ones then this obviously wouldn't work at all, but there are so few riders actually submitting video replays to these Ninja leaderboards that it would be fairly easy for me to keep track of. I mean, Qc originally made The Complex in 2009, and there are only 3 replays of it.
It would sadden me to remove great tracks like Corporate Ladder and The Complex just because they can be exploited. Can't we all just agree to either not exploit them or come up with another solution?
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Vote For MalachyteOriginally Posted by Malachyte
