Ninja Track Video Leaderboard | Forums

[rlmergeuser]

I was aiming for an easier one but I guess it turned out harder then I could tell

Well as I said I was already torn between a Level 1 and a Level 2. It could be that I was just playing badly, but I did play Rock'n'Drop II Ninja only a few hours before and found that to be significantly easier.

Do you think that False Pretenses would be more accurately categorized as a difficult Level 1?

[eH reH eH reH]

Malachyte - Thanks for adding me to the list, glad to see this thread continue as I want to add new additions. I think you have the levels set right. It's good you put Qc's mini ninjas in there, more people should try them out.

As for the treetop discussion I figured I'd put my 2 cents in also. The thing I like about treetops is the obstacles break away from anything that's the norm. I found myself having to learn completely new techniques to get through them and I believe that's where the difficulty comes from and the same thing goes for Qc's mini ninja series. I think the obstacles were purposely designed to not be anything like stuff that has already been made. A track like AM - 2 has obstacles in it that you can use the skill and techniques learned from the in-game tracks to pass it, where as treetops doesn't. When I first wrote that I thought Treetops should be a level 4 I wasn't writing it because I was the only one that had it beat at the time, nor was I writing it because I timed out twice and had so many faults . The reason was that no matter how many hours I played the obstacles were still always consistently difficult. When I posted that vid I was getting to the 2nd to last checkpoint with 20-40 faults consistently, but even after I learned ways to get pass the obstacles they were still very very difficult.

Anyways even if no one else agrees with me I still think there should be a level 4 section, because I enjoy the challenge of tracks that aren't impossible to beat, but highly improbable to pass. Even if treetops gets removed I hope some of you skilled track creators make some new level 4's.

[rlmergeuser]

Malachyte - Thanks for adding me to the list, glad to see this thread continue as I want to add new additions. I think you have the levels set right. It's good you put Qc's mini ninjas in there, more people should try them out.

Thanks! And yea, Qc's mini-ninja tracks are awesome. They teach you moves that you really won't learn anywhere else.

As for the treetop discussion I figured I'd put my 2 cents in also. The thing I like about treetops is the obstacles break away from anything that's the norm. I found myself having to learn completely new techniques to get through them and I believe that's where the difficulty comes from and the same thing goes for Qc's mini ninja series. I think the obstacles were purposely designed to not be anything like stuff that has already been made. A track like AM - 2 has obstacles in it that you can use the skill and techniques learned from the in-game tracks to pass it, where as treetops doesn't.

This is very true, but in addition to having to learn these new techniques for Treetops, even once you learn them they are still very hard to pull off with any consistency. Treetops is literally the only track I've played where I actually timed out more than once just to finish it...

Anyways even if no one else agrees with me I still think there should be a level 4 section, because I enjoy the challenge of tracks that aren't impossible to beat, but highly improbable to pass. Even if treetops gets removed I hope some of you skilled track creators make some new level 4's.

I agree with you! Treetops should definitely be a Level 4, and it would be awesome if more tracks were created to fit in this Level as well.

[jook13]

I also moved The Flip Side by jook13 from Level 1 to Level 2. I recently 0-faulted this track myself, and it took significantly longer than any other Level 1 track did; I would say it's pretty much on par with the difficulty of Superhuman by RedRider686 which I consider to be an easier Level 2 track. I know that people say Obstacle Cancer is harder, and I agree, but the spread between the tracks isn't enough to put them in different Levels. I would say that The Flip Side is an easier Level 2 while Obstacle Cancer is a harder Level 2.

Right on, I find The flip Side to be much more difficult than Obstacle Cancer. I have 0 faults on Obstacle Cancer and 19 on Flip Side

[willyums]

just to weigh in on the ninja 'debate';

firstly, i agree with most that has been said already in this topic. even though some of it slightly contradicts

secondly, i wont only address whats been said here but ideas/feelings across the forum on the subject... from memory, so dont quote me on stuff.

obviously the term 'ninja' is not official but by the time id joined this forum, people were using it to label tracks that were more difficult than extreme, which we'll assume is set roughly by redlynxs examples in game. but, as has been mentioned, the gap between extreme and impossible is HUGE. this, im guessing, is why the level system was implemented; 1-4.

now i get the feeling that some people, over time and in many topics, think that this 'ninja' business is overcomplicated, some saying theres no need for ninja at all (easy extreme, hard extreme..) and others saying there is no need for the different levels of ninja (shown in the leaderboard).

as for the term itself, i like it. i dont know how or why it came about but to me it sounds better that 'insane' or 'unreal' or 'extreme+' etc.

as for it overcomplicating things, i disagree. in fact i think the opposite. its well known on here, its widely used and we know that when someone labels their track as ninja, we're not expecting to play Easy Wheeling II. so im all in favor of calling tracks ninja if they make that significant jump in difficulty from extreme (significance that could be compared to the hard/extreme gap).

as for the different levels, yes and no. in general discussion about a new track someone made i dont see the need to added 'level ...' to the end of ninja everytime its mentioned. theres no point, take ninja to mean that its going to be a challenge and make your own mind up about how difficult it is. when simply discussing tracks the same way you would with any other difficulty, i think the word ninja is enough.

however, within this thread, that leaderboard and more in depth discussion and comparisons between ninja tracks, those levels are very useful. if ninja is to be taken as a difficulty from extreme and to... wherever, it covers a very wide range of difficulty (which may be hard to comprehend for people who really struggle with the level 1 ninjas because they cant make the comparisons). so in my opinion the levels are helpful but dont really need to be taken too far out of this thread.

at the end of the day, its malachyte whos taken this responsability and if the system works for him then its all good.

but.. there will then likely be problems with classification; which track goes where, this tracks harder than that track etc.. and its tricky because this will always be at least partly subjective depending on the rider. there is the added problem of judging 'difficulty' itself.
it comes down to so many things: faults vs time played, individual obstacle types, motivation to play/ finish/ 0-fault the track*, rider skill, track consistency and more. and so, my thoughts on simplifying the process of classifying the tracks is to simply put it to Malachytes opinion. he is experienced with ninjas of all difficulty, he is the one providing the 'service' and he can always take suggestions if somebody disagrees.

*back to this point, which i believe murdoc was on. one complication with the system is that 'motivation' determines how many people play the track and to what extent people will attempt to finish/ improve their runs on said track. some track creators have a higher prestige than others, for example people recently are struggling with a lack of feedback but as soon as murdoc releases a track, his thread gets posts immediately. thats not to say its unfair, these creators have built that reputation through quality and substance in their tracks and as such, there is a reason people follow them.

however it does mean that a more popular track could be misinterpreted as being easier than another track that is simply more obscure and played less. now treetops has been mentioned in this way and i fear that may be selling the track short. i havent played it enough to comment strongly (on my to-do list under am2) but it may be very well thought out and geniunely a notch above the likes of bounce and bloodclot if taken seriously enough.

but unfortunately there are tracks that pile on the difficulty fore the wrong reasons, being frustrating rather than creatively punishing. theres a line somewhere crossing difficulty and quality and its a fine one.

as for my general opinions on ninja tracks; i enjoy them. its a great feeling to struggle with a track before finally beating it. people say theyre frustrating but to me, the well-made ones at least, are not. they keep me determined and this isnt me claiming to be a ninja beast, i was literally 30 secs off an epic fail on am3 and i loved it.

sorry for the essay

[rlmergeuser]

WILLYUMZ - I loved your post, and agreed with pretty much everything in it. No need to apologize for the "essay", it was an interesting read!

As far as the point you and Murdoc have been making about judging tracks that get played more vs. ones that only a few people have played is totally relevant. That's why I make it a point to play every track that's in the leaderboard myself and judge it purely from my own experience rather than what other people have accomplished on it - because it's much more likely for a track to get 0-faulted if many players dedicate a lot of time to it compared to a track that only a couple of people have played a few times.

[eH reH eH reH]

Malachyte- I have a sub 50sec run/vid for pure trials 1, but I never posted it cause jook beat me the very next day and I've been to lazy for a come back run. I was thinking of posting it, but I'm gonna wait until after willys contest to take another crack at it. I'm not even sure why I'm posting this, but it probably has something to do with foolish pride and alcohol.

[jook13]

C'mon Cypher, beat my score...

[eH reH eH reH]

I'd try now, but I'm quite a bit tipsy and I'd probably just fail horribly.

[Retribution]

Ive pmed a moderator, to see if this thread could be pinned in the video section. Everyone owes it to themselves to watch all those epic runs on ninja tracks. Plus it would also boost the user content section a little.

edit- thanks sipe! ure the man.