1. #21

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    New Tracks:

    Rock'n'Drop II Ninja by Murdoc Loch added to Level 1, with replays by Dosto707 and jhop420.

    Lowercase by Murdoc Loch added to Level 3, with his own replay.

    Lowercase is clearly a Level 3, but what do you guys think of Rock'n'Drop II Ninja? Level 1 seems right to me, but maybe Dosto just made it look easy. Eventually I'll try to play through both of these tracks to judge for myself.

    EDIT: Played Rock'n'Drop II Ninja, got about 50 faults on my first try. Definitely a Level 1.

    EDIT 2: Played Lowercase. Definitely a Level 3. Made it to the 6th checkpoint on my first try and then ran out of time. On my second try I made it to the 7th checkpoint in under 10 minutes, and still took a total of 25 minutes to complete the track. Sick track Murdoc!
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  2. #22

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Originally Posted by Dosto
    I have nothing against the different levels of ninjaness, BUT; I hate to go through 3 different difficulty levels when i'm trying to find a certain track (if i don't know in which difficulty level it is).
    So, what i suggest is; just have a one list including all the tracks regardless of the difficulty level, and in alphabetical order, and have like 1-3 of these little faces after the track name: Telling how hard it is. One face meaning it is a level-1 ninja, and 2 faces meaning it is level-2 ninja, and so on.
    This way I could just find the creators name and see all his different level of ninja tracks in one place without having to look one track from 3 different places. Would make it easier to find a spesific track.
    I see your point, but what it really comes down to is that the whole purpose of this thread is Ninja tracks, not necessarily grouping tracks together from the same creators. I understand that it's annoying to have to look in 3 places to collect all the Ninja tracks from the same creator, but consider the alternative: What if someone wanted to see all the Level 3 ninja tracks, but didn't care who created them? If they were sorted as you suggested, then you would have to look through dozens of creators to find all the tracks of a certain difficulty level.

    It seems to me that people who are more interested in collecting all the tracks from a certain creator would also be interested in their other tracks - Medium, Hard, Extreme, etc. and not just the Ninja ones. As such they would be better off looking elsewhere for a complete list of tracks by any given creator. Of course it would be nice to have columns at the top to be able to sort by difficulty, creator, etc. but this is just a forum post, so advanced formatting and sorting like that just can't work.

    Oh and btw, your idea with the faces next to each track is a good one, but unfortunately the maximum number of faces allowed in one post is 8, so that wouldn't work.

    Also, in case you didn't know, if you're looking for a specific track but don't know it's difficulty rating, just do a "Find" - press ctrl + F if you're in Windows or cmd + F if you're on a Mac, type the name of the track, and press enter. That should save you some time with or without separate difficulty ratings.
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  3. #23

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    And finally to reply to Murdoc again.

    First of all, I'm really enjoying this discussion as well, so if I ever sound like a jerk don't take it personally - I can just be very opinionated sometimes.

    I definitely see your point about creating more difficult obstacles that utilize "basic" Trials skills in harder ways vs. creating totally unique obstacles. As an example I ran out of time the first several times I played Dusty Dawn by RedRider because I had no idea how to do the front tire bounce/back wheel, fender hook/front flip thing over the barrel. Does this make is a Level 3 track? Nope! Of course once I learned the proper strategy it was still really hard to pull it off, so the track still definitely qualifies as a Level 2. Some more notable examples are some of QcChoppers tracks - he has come up with many weird and unique obstacles that are hard to figure out, and many of them are still hard to overcome even once you know how, but the same rules apply - the amount of time spent figuring out a new type of obstacle shouldn't be a factor.

    I try not to factor in the amount of time and faults I waste on learning new techniques and figuring out new strategies for strange obstacles that I haven't encountered before, because you're right - that shouldn't count towards the difficulty rating.

    As far as your points about "uncomfortable" obstacles - I feel like a lot of Level 2 and Level 3 Ninja tracks have obstacles like this, whether they require you to use more traditional techniques with extreme precision or strange and new techniques of their own, these can both be uncomfortable.

    And finally I completely agree with you on weird camera angles and obscured views of the rider. These types of things should not factor in to the difficulty of a track at all, and ideally shouldn't even exist...

    /Malachyte

    PS: To everyone else - Do you enjoy reading this back-and-forth between Murdoc and myself, or would you rather we stop cluttering up this thread and use PMs instead?
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  4. #24
    willyums's Avatar Senior Member
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    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    no, keep it going. if people dont want to see an intelligent discussion about ninja difficulty they can go somewhere else.
    i have my own views on the subject so its interesting to see what others think.
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  5. #25

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Why don't you completely remove the level system and just organize the tracks in alphabetical order. Trials is a complex game and many players have different opinions about what in-game extreme track is the most difficult and I guarantee you it's the same with ninja tracks.

    I think it would be much easier for you to take away this level system and simply call every ninja track a ninja track! Let each player decide for themselves what is harder than what. It works pretty well with beginner, easy, medium, hard, and extreme tracks.

    Ninja Track = A track that is too hard to be classified as an extreme track.



    As far as inconsistent obstacles and rubbish camera angles... These are just examples of poor track design and should not be considered tracks at all.
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  6. #26

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Originally Posted by KyoshiYozima
    Why don't you completely remove the level system and just organize the tracks in alphabetical order. Trials is a complex game and many players have different opinions about what in-game extreme track is the most difficult and I guarantee you it's the same with ninja tracks.

    I think it would be much easier for you to take away this level system and simply call every ninja track a ninja track! Let each player decide for themselves what is harder than what. It works pretty well with beginner, easy, medium, hard, and extreme tracks.

    Ninja Track = A track that is too hard to be classified as an extreme track.
    It's really not that simple. Of course all Ninja tracks are harder than Extreme tracks, but there's no cap on how difficult they can be since they are all user-made. I tried to make each "Level" as broad as the in-game difficulties - in other words, the difference between the easiest Medium track and the hardest Medium track should be roughly the same as the difference between the easiest Level 1 Ninja track and the hardest Level 1 Ninja track.

    The difference in difficulty between a Level 1 Ninja track and a Level 3 Ninja track in theory would be the same as the difference between an in-game Medium track and an in-game Extreme track, and I think as the list is now, it's fairly accurate. Why let the Ninja level be so broad?

    You say it works pretty well for players to judge for themselves within Beginner, Easy, Medium, Hard, and Extreme tracks, and it does! I certainly haven't tried to organize the Ninja tracks within each Level by their difficulty, and I think it's fine for players to determine on their own which Ninja Level 1 track is the hardest, etc. All that the Ninja Levels do really is just continue the existing pattern of the increasing difficulty ratings within the game.

    Of course as I've said repeatedly now, if anyone disagrees on the current level rating of a track I'm open to feedback, and will happily move a track to a new Level if that's the consensus among riders that have played it.

    The Level system helps people know ahead of time what they are getting themselves into, and furthermore it's fair to say that anyone who has 0-faulted a Level 3 track has far more bragging rights than the dozens of players who have 0-faulted Level 1 tracks, with Level 2 tracks somewhere in between of course.

    I just don't like the idea of letting the Ninja difficulty be infinitely broader than any of the official difficulties. Variance within the same difficulty is to be expected, but (let's even take examples from the same creator) the difference in difficulty between Broken English and Bounce is for more significant than that between Brown Boxes and Diabolic. As such I believe they deserve different difficulty ratings!
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  7. #27

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Originally Posted by WILLYUMZ
    no, keep it going. if people dont want to see an intelligent discussion about ninja difficulty they can go somewhere else.
    i have my own views on the subject so its interesting to see what others think.
    It's not a two sided debate - speak up mate
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  8. #28

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    New Track:

    False Pretenses by Murdoc Loch added to Level 2, with replays by himself and JJtheGerman.

    Even after playing though it myself, I was really on the fence about this one - it's either a very hard Level 1 or an easy Level 2. What do you guys think? For the record, my first run through it I got about 250 faults and took about 15 minutes.

    I also moved The Flip Side by jook13 from Level 1 to Level 2. I recently 0-faulted this track myself, and it took significantly longer than any other Level 1 track did; I would say it's pretty much on par with the difficulty of Superhuman by RedRider686 which I consider to be an easier Level 2 track. I know that people say Obstacle Cancer is harder, and I agree, but the spread between the tracks isn't enough to put them in different Levels. I would say that The Flip Side is an easier Level 2 while Obstacle Cancer is a harder Level 2.
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  9. #29

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Originally Posted by MurdocLoch
    Originally Posted by WILLYUMZ
    no, keep it going. if people dont want to see an intelligent discussion about ninja difficulty they can go somewhere else.
    i have my own views on the subject so its interesting to see what others think.
    It's not a two sided debate - speak up mate
    I second that! I want to hear as many different opinions as possible on the subject. Speak up!
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  10. #30

    Re: Ninja Track Video Leaderboard

    Originally Posted by Malachyte
    New Track:

    False Pretenses by Murdoc Loch added to Level 2, with his own replay.
    Thanks malachyte

    JJthegerman's False Pretenses run

    I was aiming for an easier one but I guess it turned out harder then I could tell
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