1. #1

    The dreaded Object limit message!

    hey all,

    I thought i might make a handy post about the editors object count limits from what I have learnt since getting my hands on the editor. Nearly all my maps i cannot save if i add a single object, short plank of wood, a tiny arrow sign etc. This can also be a topic that people can add from their own experience that i might have missed.

    Total Objects allowed - 1000, i read this somewhere on this forum but please confirm this.

    Custom made objects: Stuff thats glued together to create something different looking or glued together for dynamic movement

    These bad boys take up alot of memory depending on how many objects you glue together. It's not been validated yet but having a glued object opposed to just leaving it as it is with physics off might take up more memory (confirmed by sebbi)

    Using as an example my stick men soldiers i made in OakVSPlywood are made up of 6 pieces for their bodies and 2 for the shield and the weapon. I had to delete a fair number of these so i could save the level. I recommend when adding fine details to your map out of custom made objects that you go ahead and think of the amount you want then add a few more so that when your in the later stages of finishing the last sections to your level you have a better idea on how much memory you have left. Big detail at the start, less at the end then you can average it out across the whole level when done.

    Lights: These are worth around 8-12 small to medium sized objects each.
    Effects: things like fire/water/steam are worth about half the amount of objects that a light takes up unless your going trigger happy on ocean of fires!

    I use lights purely for atmosphere and nothing more, if your level is looking a little dark and you have run out of memory to add lights then use the ambient/sunlight sliders in track settings to make up for it.

    Physics: The editor allows for quite alot of this, it will just affect your complexity slider in that specific area.

    While it does consume your object memory you can use triggers to activate physics instead to use up less memory. Glass is an obsession for most and it is possible with this object to apply physics to it and it wont break apart on itself but when i was close to the object limit the editor let me save my level only when i turned it off on the glass and put a trigger in front of it. Also plan your levels around large and complex physics into sections over the length of your course.

    If you plan on adding loads of background detail and closeup detail expect your level to be short possibly around 50-1.30 seconds to get to the end of it unless your like tomek or Qcchopper and have an exteme diffilculty badge on it.

    I've had some great feedback on my FancyAPipeOlChum level and a interesting comment made suggesting that i had used more objects than the editor allowed. This isn't true if you want a long and detailed level you have to use large objects to make up the background detail like shipping crates for example and small details on the driving line and medium sized objects that dont obscure the games camera in the front. The dust slider isnt just a choking hazard either its there to create the illusion of depth, i managed to delete 30 objects in the background because i increased the dust slider so that the player could not see further than i wanted them too. Think of it as your fog of war.

    Remember if the game camera cant see it (i.e the player) then delete the object because its taking up memory you could use elsewhere. Some bugs when saving, sometimes it will let you save the level then next time you open it in the editor and i dont know move an object somewhere else the message you have too many objects may pop up. Try deleting an object then adding it again and press save once more.

    Hope this helps new map makers and the more ambitious ones=)
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  2. #2
    sebastianaalton's Avatar Trials Developer
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    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    Originally Posted by AkatsukiUK
    Some bugs when saving, sometimes it will let you save the level then next time you open it in the editor and i dont know move an object somewhere else the message you have too many objects may pop up. Try deleting an object then adding it again and press save once more.
    This is not a bug. The level is compressed first with our own compression algorithm and then with ZLIB compression before saving it. If the compressed level would take more than 8kB, the warning is given. Because of our compression algorithm, it's cheaper to use multiple objects of same type, use multiple objects with same orientation (rotation), or place objects in the same plane (snapped to riding line for example). Even a small object movement or rotation change can make the level a bit smaller and fit into the 8kB limit.

    Additionally to the 8kB level size limit, there is a 1000 object hard limit. If you break it, the room complexity meter will show 100% used everywhere.

    The 8kB limit is present because of the online sharing system (8kB slots), and the 1000 object limit is present because of the limited amount of Xbox system memory we reserve for the levels. We are preloading all game objects and textures at the game startup, and this takes a lot of Xbox system memory. This way we achieve absolutely no loading times at level startups. Splosion Man for example takes up to 20 seconds to load it's levels, and another 20 seconds to load the menus after each level. Zero loading times were really important for us, and worth a little bit of sacrifice in level maxium size limit. And we didn't want to make the levels overly long, because Trials HD is a arcade game. Instant action: fast startup, fast restarts, fast over the finish line.

    I suggest making more shorter levels instead of one longer level if you are hitting the object limit. Too long levels often become frustrating, as faulting on the end of the level means a full restart at the beginning if you are aiming at zero fault run.
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  3. #3

    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    So if this is the case then can I ask..... are all the levels that were created by the developers also 8kb or under in size or can we never get anywhere near what you guys made?
    Does this also mean we will have to stick to sparse, unpopulated levels with just the driving line we want but sacrificing the backdrop/forground?

    I have hit both limits when creating levels so far which can be frustrating to say the least but it's good of you to let us know what the limits are, but I still would like to know if your own levels are under 8kb
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  4. #4

    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    hehe yea splosion man takes forever to load and its a game you do press restart on over and over especially when playing it co-op. Thanks for adding that info sebbi=)
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  5. #5

    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    I made a level last night with alot of rocks. I got the message saying too many objects. I went through deleting rocks and relocating others to cover gaps. I finally got it to save. I realized I had forgotten to change the difficulty to Medium and set the Medal times. That's the only thing I changed and when I went to save, I got the Object Limit message again.
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  6. #6
    sebastianaalton's Avatar Trials Developer
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    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    Originally Posted by EuphoricFusion
    So if this is the case then can I ask..... are all the levels that were created by the developers also 8kb or under in size or can we never get anywhere near what you guys made?
    Yes, all our levels fit into the 8kB limit (except for 3 slightly larger ones). So basically you can make as detailed levels as we can. We have had no problems with the size limit, as our levels are designed to be max one minute long when driven flawlessly. According to our play testing results, this is the level length most players prefer. Not too short, but not too long either. Too long levels tend to be frustrating to zero fault.

    It's important to note that gluing objects together takes space too. Glue does not increase the room complexity, but the file size will be bigger. So I recommend that you do not clue non-physical objects together just to group them. Making a group of objects with glue can double the amount of storage space required to save it. Use glue only for physics objects.

    Originally Posted by TheHeadhunter
    I realized I had forgotten to change the difficulty to Medium and set the Medal times. That's the only thing I changed and when I went to save, I got the Object Limit message again.
    Setting the medal time can increase the level size by a few bytes. Delete one object and the track should fit in the 8kB.
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  7. #7

    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    Thanks Sebbbi... just what I wanted to hear
    I have to admit I would have felt a little hard done by if your levels had say twice the size as what we can make but if yours can fit into 8kb, then it fills me with confidence thats for sure.

    *runs back to level editor*
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  8. #8
    QcChopper's Avatar Senior Member
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    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    Great thread AK, I learned a lot from it and from sebbbi's answers. I will now go and unglue every rock in every cloud on my Fogged Up Night track and make the track longer
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  9. #9

    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    Great info...thanks for putting it out there. I will also need to remove some of the glue on my maps...perhaps then I can have enough memory for more technical obstacles.
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  10. #10
    QcChopper's Avatar Senior Member
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    Re: The dreaded Object limit message!

    I can't believe how much new stuff I was able to add to Fogged Up Night since I unglued my clouds, I did that in the first place to move them, it was hard placing them so it wouldn't be obvious they were rocks.... Now that I know this I'll be able to use the editor much more effectively.
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