I've wondered about this for a while..
experts: Let us say there is a straight bit of track, followed by a gentle downhill slope.
My question is simple -- am I going to get a faster time by just riding as fast as I can forward down the slope -- or for a top time would you be looking for some kind of forward flip off the top (as the top record holders seem to do some times?
I just can't quite put my finger on why .. but for some reason it feels like if I flip I'm gaining about half a second ... or is this purely psychological??
Junior Member
It depends entirely on the shape of the track; just saying a flat then a downhill isn't enough information.
The forward flipping itself doesn't make you go faster, the reason riders use the front flip is so that:
a. The rear wheel lands as early as possible, allowing them to accelerate earlier.
b. the forward rotation you gain during the flip can be converted to speed when you land.
c. Sometimes riders simply flip so that they can cut closer to an obstacle. Clearing an obstacle requires height, and gaining vertical momentum usually results in the loss of horizontal momentum. If you can position your body so that you can cut closer to an obstacle without colliding with it, you can 'jump less' and sustain more forward momentum.
But for the flip to be beneficial, you need to consider a lot of other factors, such as speed/time lost setting up the flip in the first place, what obstacles come after the landing (which you may lose time setting up for), or whether you are better off hitting the brakes and then accelerating on the downhill (avoiding the air time and therefore loss of drive).
This is why it's a move used in some places but not all.
Hopefully that improves your understanding, maybe if you read this and then watch some replays you'll 'get' why it's used in certain places.
Lestropie
nice explanation lestropie, been trying to get a better understanding of when to use it myself
Indeed great thanks.
Pity I'm going to take your rank #1 using this information.
Britters.
(ps there is one lie within this reply, can you spot it
ha ha good luck britboy!
It's ok, you gotta pass me first and that won't be as much of a challenge
In some circumstances forward flipping does gain time and speed.
When you forward flip, there is a slight loss of momentum due to air resistance.
But, the application of the "forward" key in the Trials 2 SE physics engine fails basic Newtonian physics: it gives you a forward/nose-down torque without applying the equal and opposite torque against any other component on the bike (or the bike wouldn't nose down as is the desired control characteristic). Thus you can gain rotational momentum at no cost.
The gain of rotational momentum while in the air, which if you land it well can be converted into a burst of forward momentum, can easily be more than the loss of momentum from air resistance, giving you extra speed on landing versus just flying through the air and landing more "conventionally" without doing any crazy flippy stuff.
The really good guys are masters of this stuff, it's amazing watching their bike control and technique creativity in their replays!
Junior Member
Hehe, I tried my best to explain it without using physics terminology, and you just destroyed it
Just imagine how difficult these tracks would be if the game did obey conservation of angular momentum...
I just found one with closer to real physics, Big Fun Motorcycle Trials. Incidentally, the last level is a good one, throws a bit of problem solving in.... unfortunately problem solving wouldnt work with Trials2 because of the replay system. Perhaps if replays were only viewable after you had zero faulted?
Trials Developer
This is true, but only if the rider is fully leaning back or forward. If the rider is fully leaning either forward or backward and you keep pressing the left/right key, an (very) small additional torque is applied to that direction. This allows you to slowly rotate the bike in the air and have much more control over the bike landing. The first (internal) version of Trials 2 didn't have this feature, and the bike was much much more frustrating to handle, and the game was less fun.Originally Posted by GrantR
In my opinion the extra torque force was set a bit too high in Trials 2. A much smaller additional torque force would have been enough to make the bike easy enough to control in the air.
Fun and playability is a critical aspect of game design, so doing stuff like this is sometimes necessary. My brain still isn't 100% used to how the forward/backward keys have to move the rider all the way in that direction before the mystery torque kicks in. Those really steep uphill climbs are where it really gets me into trouble.Originally Posted by sebbbi
When I first started playing I found myself revving the bike up a lot while in the air, in a reflexive attempt to keep the nose of the bike up, except that revving and braking don't apply the opposite torque into the bike either so there's no effect from that. (again, that's a game design thing).
When I try to envision how the game might play with "realistic" controls, I do think it wouldn't be as much fun as the current implementation! A lot of the trickier levels wouldn't be possible at all. (but of course I am curious...)
