1. #1

    What was the gameplay thinking behind the encounter at the top of the lighthouse?

    I never played the alpha/beta beyond the first town because I didn't want to get spoilers.

    But now, I've arrived at the top of the lighthouse.

    Let me first say that so far, the entire experience has been easy sailing, with only a single character getting knocked out on one occasion for me, and me making it back to the temple with no encounters.

    So why the sudden change? Why throw four tough enemies at me at the same time, and without warning at that? Or did I miss the game telling me of that rear door opening at the same time as I open the one in front of me?

    There was no way to get out of that encounter, except for reloading.

    Also, despite being the same enemies from the level below (there was at least one elite there too), these four seem much more difficult to hit, blocking almost every blow before I succumbed (though that might have been bad luck with random number generator).

    I don't think that's any fun at all, nor good gameplay design, so unless I missed something obvious, what were the designers thinking when they did this?

    At least have a big, foreboding sound effect of a second set of doors opening so there is an "oh, crap" moment instead of just a frustrating surprise.

    I did not even understand I was attacked from behind the first time, because my characters didn't warn me (like when being attacked from the side) and there wasn't any UI indication of what was going on either, except for my life draining incredibly fast.

    PS. When I reloaded and went back to the orc captain in the first town, I got an icon saying that the lighthouse quest was updated, but I did not get any new conversation at all...

    DS. I guess the same goes for the shadow dragon in the cave right by the starting town... I mean... really?
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  2. #2
    Ok, so there was a secret room you could find and flee into, to not get hit in the back.

    However, I still think that the game should have warned about the ambush by playing an extra creaking set of doors sound to avoid a frustrating reload, instead of a cool "oh crap" moment.

    Also, on the first floor, I just noticed that enemies pop up behind you. It's quite a cheap trick that I don't think even the original MM games used, and later in the castle you clearly see new enemies teleport in to great effect, so why the lazy pop in here?
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  3. #3
    Do you play on warrior? Then you should expect the unexpected (=big challenges) all the way...

    And that a dragon is tough is ... no surprise
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  4. #4
    But what is a surprise is that there is a great dragon in a cave right outside the starting town!

    I mean, the cyclops cave has a clear warning sign, but that one did not, and it had a bloody small, closed wooden door in front of it... one does not expect a dragon to close the door behind him (or even get through that door). I mean, if the ground outside of the cave would have been scorched and blackened, I would have gotten the clue, but right now, it just seems a bit silly.

    Also, I really hope these are not supposed to be the same dragons, because the discrepancy is quite big:

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  5. #5
    Veluim's Avatar Junior Member
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    If you use Danger Sense you can see enemies on the map.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Veluim Go to original post
    If you use Danger Sense you can see enemies on the map.
    Yes, but you can only see enemys that are in the same area. You can only see a door on the map - but not whats behind it.

    That Dragon surprised me too and i was even more surprised that i couldn't get out of the cave once the combat started.
    It would be nice if there were a flee or runaway from a combat function. Maybe an end combat button would be enough.
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  7. #7
    I'm in the castle now, and opened a door on the third floor to see a mage standing a square into a somewhat large room.

    Smells like an ambush, I said, so i turned left and right to look around the corners. Nothing there.

    Stepped into the room, and what happens? Attacked from both sides, of course.

    Again, why turn a moment that can delight the player instead into a frustrating reload? What is the design thinking behind monster closets and impossible ambushes like this?
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  8. #8
    Know what a "Wake Up Call Boss" is?

    It's a Boss that's the game's way of telling you, "this is where we stop playing around and start to get rough."

    This guy is this game's Wake Up Call Boss.

    Originally Posted by eobet Go to original post
    I'm in the castle now, and opened a door on the third floor to see a mage standing a square into a somewhat large room.

    Smells like an ambush, I said, so i turned left and right to look around the corners. Nothing there.

    Stepped into the room, and what happens? Attacked from both sides, of course.

    Again, why turn a moment that can delight the player instead into a frustrating reload? What is the design thinking behind monster closets and impossible ambushes like this?
    So what you're saying is, you want the game to be too easy, is that what you're saying?

    Be lucky this isn't one of those old arcade games like "House of the Dead" that you had to use about $20 worth of quarters to finish.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by BrianCorvello Go to original post
    It's a Boss that's the game's way of telling you, "this is where we stop playing around and start to get rough."
    My problem is that the game only told me this AFTER I had passed the point of no return, when the only option left was to quit and re-load.

    If there had been huge scorch marks outside of the dungeon, or the dungeon looking like a vast, black cavern from the outside, or there being a way to flee once the dragon has appeared, then it would be OK. Now, with the small door just saying "dangerous cavern", it is just bad game design unfortunately.

    Originally Posted by BrianCorvello Go to original post
    So what you're saying is, you want the game to be too easy, is that what you're saying?
    No, the game is rather easy, actually, even on warrior (so far). What I am saying is that a good game designer doesn't create irreversible
    "f you" moments like this.

    Both the dragon and the ambushes are completely fine, IF there would have been some way for the player to figure them out beforehand, instead of rinsing and repeating after a re-load, completely killing the magic moments of those setups.
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  10. #10
    is it really that big of a deal? i mean, you just went up to a new floor at that point, so you have an autosave available from moments before if you screw up. other than that, that's why there's a quicksave (F5), i quicksaved following almost every battle and never had a problem.

    personally i enjoyed those surprises, otherwise the game becomes overly standard and linear....
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