1. #1

    Expansion 4 suggestion: Counter Outmanuver rushes

    Hello there,

    I think we all knew Santuary was going to get stronger, but I don't think anyone really anticipated just how strong adding just one more outmaneuver card to their cost curve was going to become. Outmanuver counters very hard any deck that tries to do more of a control-game and play for the late game. the exception is if you have a lot of area spells, like Insect Swarms.

    As I noted in my other thread, Earth and Air magic currently lack synergy; resulting in weak Stronghold heroes that combine these schools.

    Here is an idea or two that attempts to provide solutions vs. Outmanuver while at the same time also creating better synergy between these two schools.

    =-=--==-=-=--=-==-=-
    New mechanic:

    Steadfast (Steadfast creatures may not be moved, relocated or returned to your hand by your opponents' Spells or Creatures)

    The idea behind Steadfast is that it is a stronger form of Anchored. Note however that it doesn't protect the creature from Fortunes*. Steadfast can be an ability granted by Earth spells and also intrinsic on some Creature cards from different factions (like how Fear is seen on different creature cards here and there on different factions)

    Examples:

    Haven - Creature
    Golumn Warrior
    2 Cost
    1 Might, 2 Magic, 0 Destiny
    1 Attack, 0 Retaliate, 4 Life
    Golumn Warrior, and all friendly adjacent creatures gain Steadfast.

    This is an example of what a card for each/several factions might look like. Academy is actually a faction that would really need Steadfast to counter Sanctuary rush since their low-cost creatures are not capable of dealing with outmaneuver very well.

    Stronghold - Fortune
    Iron Wings
    3 Cost
    2 Might, 0 Magic, 2 Destiny
    Ongoing fortune: All your flying creatures gain Steadfast

    Earth - Spell
    3 cost
    0 Might, 3 Magic, 0 Destiny
    Ongoing: Enchanted creature gains +1 Attack and Steadfast

    Air - Spell
    3 cost
    0 Might, 5 Magic, 0 destiny
    Return all creatures to player's hand that do not have Steadfast
    Anchored counters this ability implicitly and therefore does not need to be listed explicitly

    -==-=-=--=-=-=-==--=-=-==-

    The last three cards together would create a network of synergy. Earth can give Steadfast, protecting you from out-maneuver and puppet master and it also gives a +1 attack so that the card has immediate value, as well as value in situations where the steadfast is less critical (general application vs. specific counter). The air spell here now works completely in synergy with earth cards that anchor and/or give your cards steadfast. Creating strong synergy between the two schools and really helping heroes out like Kat.

    Thanks for reading!

    =-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-==-

    * It doesn't protect from Fortunes because currently Fortune decks have a very hard time dealing with counters. However if more Fortune-based counters appeal, this exception can be removed and it can just say "by your opponent" and keep the mechanic simpler. I'm actually more in favor of keeping the mechanic simpler and giving fortune based counters instead -- less is more.
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  2. #2
    Aegon82's Avatar Senior Member
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    I don't think we need these ability. We already have anchored. It is great against sanctuary, dark magic and fortune decks. So it needs a little drawback of not being able to move it yourself neither.

    Also, from my experience, control decks do pretty good against sanctuary decks, it's just that people don't play control because Ammar was instant lose. But after Ammar nerf, we are free to play those Malik decks again.
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  3. #3
    best way to counter outmanouvre are the un-targetting events i guess
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  4. #4
    how does anchored work against dark magic?
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  5. #5
    Aegon82's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Crimson84 Go to original post
    how does anchored work against dark magic?
    It counters puppet master and enthrall.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Aegon82 Go to original post
    It counters puppet master and enthrall.
    I had no idea but it makes sense! Now, if only I could use anchored with Haven.... (not related to dark magic, just to stop Ishuma)
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  7. #7
    Aegon82's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Crimson84 Go to original post
    I had no idea but it makes sense! Now, if only I could use anchored with Haven.... (not related to dark magic, just to stop Ishuma)
    You can use ice shell with Sandalphon and Morgan.
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  8. #8
    I really like the Haven creature idea, it seems really effective with a balanced drawback.
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  9. #9
    The reason that Anchored is not sufficient is because it counters YOUR own movement as well. If you play earth+air you can't use Air abilities, nor your unique-hero to move anchored creatures. Anchored is also not something I'd want to see as a counter to Sanctuary outmaneuver because it then forces you to not be able to move against any other opponent.

    Steadfast is proposed/designed to only block your opponent from moving you. Indirectly also countering WOMBO COMBO which is honestly not a bad thing.
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  10. #10
    From my point of view the problem isn't realy outmanoeuvre by him self, it's his synergy with hypnotise.

    Outmanoeuver should be countered in a way by vivacity, but with hypnotise it's just impossible.

    I think things could be way different if hypnotise didn't affect vivacity, or if sanctuary couldn't outmanoeuvre hypnotise creature.

    And here I don't even talk about the synergy with ambush and Raya. All these combined, I don't see how you can deal with sanctuary without spells.
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