1. #1

    Expansion 4 Suggestion: Shake up the meta

    Hello there,


    More suggestions from me today.


    Something that I think is necessary still in this game is a bit less of a hard rock-paper-scissors hero combinations that we have going on. Play Acamas and face a SotS deck and all your fortunes are useless the turn it comes out. Face a lock deck with only creatures and no way to discard cards or break the lock and you just hit end-turn and wait for your opponent to lose their lock of their own accord (you have no impact on their ability to retain lock or not)


    Strong TCGs are designed in such a way that all heroes have a chance against all other heroes and lock-outs should have solutions, available to all heroes, to break them. Otherwise it becomes a passive game determined by which hero you picked (outguess hero selection) instead of a game won by the in-game tactical decisions taken by each player.


    To this end, I think it is nice that dispels are mainly from Primal/Negation magic, but there still needs to be broadly accessible ways to break locks available to all factions, implemented in different ways, but still viable enough that you can be competitive.


    In addition to all this, we need more shake-up of the game, it it shouldn't be predictable what a hero is doing, and the uniques as a system unfortunately stimulate limited variation rather than diversity (especially because you can tutor for a unique much easier than other cards).

    The good thing about giving more counters to uniques and ongoing spells/fortunes is that you can then design more of them! If people have answers to certain cards it then opens the design space to explore making even stronger / more varied cards in the future.

    Here is a selection of meta-shaking card designs, aimed at addressing several of the above points:

    =--==--==--==-=--=

    Event
    Week of Peace
    0: Banish target ongoing Fortune or Spell if its controlling player has no creatures in play.
    Counters heroes who do locks but don't use any creatures while doing so

    Event
    Week of Clarity
    0: Discard 2 cards, gain 3 resources
    [I]Counters hand-locks since it lets you dump cards and also gain some resources if hit by Prison, opens up more resource acceleration for everyone (but a bit expensive to use without consideration), interesting for Inferno also interesting if you want to seed your GY.

    Event
    The Meek shall rise
    Unique cards may not be played and Unique creatures cannot attack.
    Counters decks that rely too heavily on Unique creatures to win their games, which in turn enlarges the design space (decks with vs. decks without uniques).

    Neutral - Fortune
    Balance of Fortune
    4 resources - 1 Destiny
    Destroy target ongoing fortune
    Expensive, but doesn't require a high level of fortune to play. One of these in your deck can save you if you have no other way to deal with ongoing fortunes like Waist-land

    Neutral - Fortune
    Contemplation
    0 resources - 2 destiny
    Discard 2 cards, draw 1 card
    Lets you reduce your hand size, helpful if you are being hand-locked and also a cheap way to cycle cards if you need something but don't have resources to spare

    Spell
    Air
    Hurricane
    5 cost, 5 magic
    Return all non-anchored creatures on the board to their owners hand.
    Design: Creates a direct synergy between Earth and Air spells, helping Stronghold decks to have better synergy -- synergy is lacking between earth and air right now! Currently air moves your stuff around, Earth prevents it from happening = 0 synergy! We need air and earth Synergy and suddenly Stronghold as a faction will do much better...

    Spell
    Fire
    Plasmic Combustion
    4 cost, 4 magic
    Destroy target ongoing Spell. It's controller's hero takes 2 damage.
    Design: Gives a solution to Fire-magic heroes to deal with ongoing spells, it is expensive but if you don't have any other solution to destroy ongoing spells, it at least provides you with a solution

    Spell
    Light
    Radiant Vitality
    3 Cost, 3 Magic
    Ongoing: All creatures gain 2 life so long as Radiant Vitality is in play.
    Design: by giving all creatures in play more life you will get a lot more value from your healing spells, making your starting common haven cards better

    Spell
    Earth
    Fog
    4 cost, 1 magic
    Ongoing: Until the start of next turn, creatures cannot be targeted
    Design: low magic requirement so that you can cast this even if you do not focus on high-magic levels, designed to protect your cards from targeting abilities.

    Spell
    Dark
    3 cost, 5 magic
    Ongoing: Target enchanted creature gains Fear 3.
    Alternative play style

    Spell
    Primal
    Ray of Feebleness
    1 cost, 4 magic
    Your hero takes 1 damage, target enemy hero loses 1 Might level.
    Low cost ensures it is useful.

    Fortune
    Haven
    2 resources, 3 destiny
    Call to Glory
    Ongoing fortune
    Gain 2 resources the first time you play a cost 6 or more creature each turn.
    Bring to light Haven's high-resource creatures and encourage big plays instead of swarms

    Fortune
    Necro
    2 resources, 3 destiny
    Charm of the Snake
    Ongoing Fortune
    All your creatures are immune to Poison damage.
    Synergy for what is currently a weak meta for Necro

    Fortune
    Inferno
    2 resources, 3 destiny
    Inquisitor's Blight
    Ongoing Fortune
    Once per turn, draw a card if your opponent has no cards in hand.
    More synergy for strong discard strategies, try getting several of these out to combine the effect

    Fortune
    Stronghold
    2 resources 4 destiny
    Battle Banner
    Ongoing: Gain 1 resource for every point of Might you gain.
    Lot's of synergy with increasing your might level, many combos open up here

    Fortune
    Sanctuary
    2 resources 4 destiny
    Temple of Odin
    Return all ongoing Fortunes and Spells to their owners hand.
    Another alternative control card, support for Stream Singer, support for Fortune based Sanctuary decks

    Fortune
    Academy
    3 resource 4 destiny
    One Word
    Ongoing: Until the start of your next turn, all creatures lose Spell and Magical ward, protection and resistances
    Solves one of the primary loss conditions that Academy decks can face, especially ones that try to go spell-heavy. High fortune requirement keeps it niche in application or for late game

    -==-=--=-==-=-

    Thank you for reading.
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  2. #2
    I really like these suggestions. Nothing is game breaking and it helps add to the dynamic of each type of deck. Put this guy to work in your designs.
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  3. #3
    the creature aggro decks in this game are already good enough, many of your suggestions are just tools to help those decks fight against the sort of things which can fight against them which is exactly what this game doesn't need. You seem to think OTK/stall/control decks are dominating the game, I don't know if you've played any tournaments or watched R2P lately, but nothing could be further from the truth.

    What we really need is:

    Wrath of god
    4 resources
    4 magic
    [light?- i'm unsure what school it should be, maybe primal or dark]

    Destroy all creatures. The cost of this spell may not be modified.

    MTG has basically always had a similar spell in its standard format, and it's what the game needs to stop the all-in aggro strategies from dominating as much as they are right now. Aggro inherently gets better as the card pool gets larger, because you gain more redundancy of good early drops so your curve can get lower and lower, increasing power and consinstency. Without a really strong tool, control decks are going to have an increasingly hard time existing in this game and we'll continue to degenerate into coinflip aggro/rush creature combat.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Frostbyte2222 Go to original post
    I really like these suggestions. Nothing is game breaking and it helps add to the dynamic of each type of deck. Put this guy to work in your designs.
    Thanks Frostbyte, I was the lead game designer on Shadow Era TCG and I'm still looking for another TCG where I can apply my creative / balance skills.
    :_)
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Psychobabble.au Go to original post
    the creature aggro decks in this game are already good enough, many of your suggestions are just tools to help those decks fight against the sort of things which can fight against them which is exactly what this game doesn't need. You seem to think OTK/stall/control decks are dominating the game, I don't know if you've played any tournaments or watched R2P lately, but nothing could be further from the truth.

    What we really need is:

    Wrath of god
    4 resources
    4 magic
    [light?- i'm unsure what school it should be, maybe primal or dark]

    Destroy all creatures. The cost of this spell may not be modified.

    MTG has basically always had a similar spell in its standard format, and it's what the game needs to stop the all-in aggro strategies from dominating as much as they are right now. Aggro inherently gets better as the card pool gets larger, because you gain more redundancy of good early drops so your curve can get lower and lower, increasing power and consinstency. Without a really strong tool, control decks are going to have an increasingly hard time existing in this game and we'll continue to degenerate into coinflip aggro/rush creature combat.
    Thanks for your input Psychobabble. If you read my intro text again you will see that I am not implying that OTK/Lock decks are stronger than any other deck, but instead I am stating that hero selection, not card/deck design is what (more often than not) determining if you win a certain match or not.

    By having zero cards available to you to counter a certain opponent play the win is determined by only two vectors: can I win by rushing before my opponent plays card X that kills me? The classic example is Acamas vs. SotS. If Acamas can't win before SotS comes out, it will be a lot harder for him. Blackskull spell crusher could work, but blackskull is far weaker at its cost-range than other cards you could play, and it is also very hard to ensure that it will actually get to use its ability since it is not a deploy effect but tied to his ability to stay alive for a turn (which is totally dependent on your opponent having zero ways to kill/disable him). This example isn't even the most extreme I can think up since there are plenty of match ups where you will see zero options for how to counter your opponents play. For example: try playing Necro (a hero w/o Negation) vs OTK, there isn't much you can do here except hope they lose their own lock from bad draw.

    To your suggestion: I agree that agro is getting dominant lately, especially Sanctuary, but there are other ways to deal with Agro outside of providing another low-cost forbidden flame to Haven -- who really doesn't need to get any stronger right now neither.

    When designing cards for a faction, one needs to consider these questions:

    1. Is the faction doing well?
    2. What (how many) strategies are they employing?
    3. Are they consistent, who do they lose/win against consistently? (check stats)

    If the faction is doing well, and is also consistent you will then fall back on point 2: strategies and there focus on providing cads that open up new metas. For haven this could be encouraging them to play higher-cost creature cards (hence the card design I proposed in my initial post).

    In the case of rushing, the strongest rush right now is probably Sanctuary. And the solution I would propose would be to instead counter Outmanuver a bit more overtly. More on that in a new post.

    Thanks again!

    bye for now.
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  6. #6
    I dislike to cheap ways to lower an enemy's Might. The damage you take is absolutely insignificant to the fact that will be 1-2 turns ahead in terms of the creature strength you can put down on the board. And it cost you practically nothing! Absolutely not a good choice.

    Something like 2-3 resources that says 'Compare your Might to your opponent's. The player with the highest value reduces it by 1. Repeat this process for Magic and Destiny.'

    This way, it's not a terrible one-sided card. Maybe this version is a bit much, and it could just say 'choose Might, Magic or Destiny. If your opponent's level of that stat is higher than yours, reduce it by 1.'
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  7. #7
    Sqrawn's Avatar Junior Member
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    Nov 2013
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    15
    Cheap removal prompts power creep in creatures. If creatures are too easy to kill with spells/fortunes and thus risky to play, they'd have to make them stronger and stronger over time to compensate.
    We don't need that.
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  8. #8
    Aegon82's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mar 2013
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    Too much stall hate in this post.
    We don't need those free stall killer events, we need some neutral fortune to deal with ongoing fortunes.
    But I would cost it something like 1 resource, 4 fortune. You crush stall decks, but have to invest on it.

    What I really love is the event hosing unique cards, perfectly designed.
    And fire in my opinion shouldn't be able to deal with spells or fortunes.
    As well as dark shouldn't be able to deal with rush decks.
    Those are school phylosophy.
    You compare it to other games, well, try mtg. Red can't deal with enchantments, black can't deal with artifacts and enchantments, green can't deal with non flyer creatures, blue can't destroy any permanent, white... mmm, maybe it's kind of OP?
    What I mean is that in order to do everything you want, you have to prepare your deck. In mtg you add a second colour. Here, you may add some fortune/spell in your otherwise fortune/spell-less deck. But you still can't do nothing reliable against ongoing fortunes, that needs to change.
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