Ammar nerf? | Forums

[Robchulan]

just be fast and kill his units, keep their field clean of creatures.

thats 100% right and the key.

all other player who think this deck is op .. please reach 1500 first and then keep talking

[AmineM2]

I'm watching Enclase's stream at the moment.

He just met 2 Ammans. 2:0 for Enclase (Akane spell/creature)

Edit: It's 2:1 now. Very bad draw for Enclase. Now I'm leaving the stream, but I know what I needed to know (and what other posters pointed out): creature removal is vital. Keep the battlefield clear and you are relatively safe.

[MeiHabara]

I'm watching Enclase's stream at the moment.

He just met 2 Ammans. 2:0 for Enclase (Akane spell/creature)

Edit: It's 2:1 now. Very bad draw for Enclase. Now I'm leaving the stream, but I know what I needed to know (and what other posters pointed out): creature removal is vital. Keep the battlefield clear and you are relatively safe.

Exactly my words. As I already posted: I play Ammar now for a week, and he is strong, but not indestructible.

Either crush his creatures, purge djinns and chain casting or outrush him.

Back in the days, with the old Kats OTK, Siegfried Prison decks, Yukiko locks, you really had very limited possibilities to counter them. But Ammar is an OTK you can actively fight and come out on top, if you have some brains and an average or good draw.

[silentbobus]

Oddly enough I already have most of the cards from Forgotten Wars to play Ammar. 3 Chain Castings, 2 Catalysts and everything prior to Forgotten Wars, all I'm missing is Ammar himself.

That's it, this thread has convinced me, I'm going to win a Swiss tournament with my Academy Hero (Hakeem) and try it out!

The thing I keep coming back to is... after around turn 7 or so Ammar is going to be drawing an additional card for every spell he plays, while his opponent will not. Whether or not he can draw out the entire deck in one turn, isn't massive CA over time enough of an advantage to win? That was my initial concern with this Hero when I first saw him printed, it looked like a classic 'survive until turn x and you win' scenario.

[Freyjan]

Pretty much, once his ability is online it's basically over.

And even with god draws you're not even remotely close to being guaranteed a win against him. Played my first swiss yesterday, got paired against Ammar in the finals. I stuck a DA turn 1, DA + Wretched Ghoul turn 2, and continue to curve out well while managing to kill the first 4-5 creatures he played basically on the same turn he played them. I still lost the game by a decent margin.

Multiple creatures with over 4 HP + tons of board wipes made gaining headway pretty difficult.

After going on a +100 elo win streak yesterday I've been debating buying Ammar so I can Freelo myself from the rest of the way from 1400 to 1500, since I pretty much also own the deck minus the hero itself.

[AmineM2]

Pretty much, once his ability is online it's basically over.

Just not true.

Enclase finished his first stream so you may watch:

http://www.twitch.tv/theenclase/b/467296427

First Enclase's duel with Ammar:

22:30

Ammar lost in turn 10.

Second Enclase's duel with Ammar

39:55

Ammar lost in round 11

Third Enclase's duel with Ammar

1:05:50

Amman Won in turn 7 (your scenario)

Fourth Enclase's duel with Ammar

1:51:15

Amman won in turn 13 (only because Enclase misplayed Halls of Torment 3 times :-))

[silentbobus]

Just not true.

Enclase finished his first stream so you may watch:

http://www.twitch.tv/theenclase/b/467296427

First Enclase's duel with Ammar:

22:30

Ammar lost in turn 10.

Second Enclase's duel with Ammar

39:55

Ammar lost in round 11

Third Enclase's duel with Ammar

1:05:50

Amman Won in turn 7 (your scenario)

Fourth Enclase's duel with Ammar

1:51:15

Amman won in turn 13 (only because Enclase misplayed Halls of Torment 3 times :-))

To complete this evaluation we'd need to see the stream where Enclase is playing Ammar to evaluate how well he does with it. Perhaps it might be helpful to see Ammar matchups where neither person is Enclase as well.

[Jarema03]

I played against this deck with Crag Hack rush. I think my deck was one of the 'fastest' decks that are in this game. I think, I had really good draw - a dark assassin, two other unexpensive creatures, two more expensive ones, and one fortune; all I wanted to have. I had early advantage on table for a few rounds, killing his adepts when he put them on the table. Unfortunately, I did not manage to kill my oponent in 3 turns... then it started. He bought some time with stone shield and the spell that stops my creatures from attacking. Then, turn 5 or 6, he went through his entire deck, killing all my units, and buffing his Pao to 17 or 18 strenght - enough to kill me, because I used DA earlier.

I would say: rushing this deck is hard thing to do. Maybe other strategies described here will work, but rushing is not the perfect counter.

[Freyjan]

I played against this deck with Crag Hack rush. I think my deck was one of the 'fastest' decks that are in this game. I think, I had really good draw - a dark assassin, two other unexpensive creatures, two more expensive ones, and one fortune; all I wanted to have. I had early advantage on table for a few rounds, killing his adepts when he put them on the table. Unfortunately, I did not manage to kill my oponent in 3 turns... then it started. He bought some time with stone shield and the spell that stops my creatures from attacking. Then, turn 5 or 6, he went through his entire deck, killing all my units, and buffing his Pao to 17 or 18 strenght - enough to kill me, because I used DA earlier.

I would say: rushing this deck is hard thing to do. Maybe other strategies described here will work, but rushing is not the perfect counter.

I posted a similar summary of a game I had in swiss yesterday. Turn 1 DA, turn 2 DA + Wretched Ghoul, turn 3 another creature and some removal. I killed 5 of his creatures by turn 5-6 but only managed to get around 8 damage in (while doing 3-4 to myself from the DAs) since all his guys had 5-6 HP or spell/magic resist. People saying obvious things like 'oh you just have to kill all his guys' or 'you have to rush him before he can go off' or 'Day of the Sanctuary totally counters the deck' are either ignorant to the strength of the deck or just simply haven't played against a properly built one with a half decent draw.


@Amine:

First game, the opponent kept a pretty bad hand from the looks of it, and overplayed his stone shields. Also..contagion?
Given the super slow hand Enclase had it should have basically been an autowin for Ammar.

Second game, Ammar seemed to go way too deep before being able to certainly discard Cosmic Singularity and thus milled himself. Enclase had at least one super lucky draw as well but overall I would say this was poor play on the opponent's part, and even the best deck will lose with a bad pilot behind it.

Apologies but I didn't get to watch the third or fourth as I have to rush out, but I would certainly like to check them out later. I did watch a stream of him and a few others playing as the Ammar deck though and all of them just kept laughing the whole time as they racked up free wins

Either way, since the deck I currently run doesn't really need most of the events it uses I'll probably just put in particular ones to screw up Ammar for a while until hopefully the fad blows over. I'm honestly surprised though that Ammar was released with his ability. Most others will have a 'if X happens for the first time this turn" clause. Why they thought the hero whose ability lets you straight up draw more cards didn't need this clause is beyond me.

[coinmagic45]

I'm honestly surprised though that Ammar was released with his ability. Most others will have a 'if X happens for the first time this turn" clause. Why they thought the hero whose ability lets you straight up draw more cards didn't need this clause is beyond me.

Same here. And I think that is exactly what they will do to fix it. That would make it consistent with the others. That, or change Ignatius so he damages your opponent EVERY time they discard a card. That wouldn't be broken either, right? :-P