1. #1111
    Reduce the high number of enemies / small areas.

    It's frustrating when you force the gamer to be exposed and veer to combat rather than stealth.

    As examples - Special Missions HQ or the one with the army truck in the middle of the abdondoned street which contains a dead drop, yet you have three guards around it, one on a truck right next to you, and a sniper over looking the street.

    That's not fun, it's frustrating and flat out annoying. I don't expect stealth games to be straight forwards but this game really encourages you to be lethal than non-lethal.
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  2. #1112
    Oh yeh, and get rid of Co-op for single player. I want to do Briggs missions on my own, not with someone else. Either leave them out the game or make them a completely separate part of the game with their own trophies. At the moment it's stopping me getting platinum and forcing me to get someone else online to do with them me. It's rubbish.
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  3. #1113
    Daredevil_Diver's Avatar Member
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    Blacklist is bigger and better, but at what cost?

    Maybe the SC series is moving on to bigger and better things. Maybe it's something we have to accept.

    This quote is my counter argument.



    Evolution is good. Growth is good. But the risk attached to expansion and development is just that as previously stated. Blacklist has been successful, but it's cost the series a good portion of it's previous identity as a high quality stealth title. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily. But it isn't great. It would be better if a happy medium could be met where the series could flourish best.

    A better balanced formula would mean a greater number of satisfied customers.

    it may mean starting from the ground up, but it will pay off in the long run, garunteed.
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  4. #1114
    Dnkrow7's Avatar Junior Member
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    Okay, so maybe someone at Ubi will notice my message... First : I play on PC.

    I have to say that I really have a love/hate relationship with this game. Like many fans of the series my favourite is Chaos Theory which was the deepest game in term of gameplay. I think Blacklist almost manage to get to the level... almost.
    I've recently discovered that you get points for guards that were left untouched and that is what I was waiting for since Chaos Theory! Real infiltration! No one notices that you were here. It's a great addition to the game. But it is really counterbalanced by a "*)"*(/ checkpoint system instead of free savegame. E.g. how are you supposed to get through HQ special missions without being noticed in the server room ? I've done nearly 30 attempts and still no luck. With a savegame I could at least go to the room at the other side and try again from there.

    Regarding SvM, I'm glad there is a "classic mode" because the "standard modes" are, well... weird. Spies are more assassins than spies as there is no shadow to hide in. Don't make your multiplayer games with the wrong licence in mind, Ubi.
    By the way I think that the chat system is really poor... like nonexistent. You can't chat between games, when you're dead, etc... only when you are playing and can't really type. xD But it's a common issue in Ubi multiplayer games; I've never seen a good chat system except maybe in... Chaos Theory (\o/ once again this fabulous game as an example). It's hard to make friends and have a good community with chat system like this!

    Last but no least I think that the game is too bright. I never use the Night Vision goggles... (even when adjusting the gamma to the lowest I can still see the three icons and I can assure it's not my screen).


    Well, the game was almost the best on in the series, I hope you'll do even better for the next installment (don't forget to give us back savegame option!).
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  5. #1115
    Ubi-MoshiMoshi's Avatar Community Representative
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    Hi and welcome to the forums, thank you for your feedback.
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  6. #1116
    SanityAgathion's Avatar Senior Member
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    Uplay pleasantly surprised me today. I installed Uplay after Windows reinstall, logged in, it even has my library folder in settings (E:\Ubisoft). I ran Blacklist executable directly without installing the game, game started up and all my progress is still there!

    Just a little quirk - I do not know how to register the game without reinstalling it. It's already on a PC and it's running just fine at its latest state. In Uplay library it shows only option for Download, right mouse click for additional options is not implemented and some kind of Settings for individual games is nowhere to be found. I do not know how to force Uplay to check its library folder, point it to right directory where game is already installed and do a full check against online repository then re-download missing or corrupted files. You know, like ... normal game management that any other clients are capable of (Steam, Blizzard, any and all MMORPGs).
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  7. #1117
    Originally Posted by Dnkrow7 Go to original post
    Okay, so maybe someone at Ubi will notice my message... First : I play on PC.

    I have to say that I really have a love/hate relationship with this game. Like many fans of the series my favourite is Chaos Theory which was the deepest game in term of gameplay. I think Blacklist almost manage to get to the level... almost.
    I've recently discovered that you get points for guards that were left untouched and that is what I was waiting for since Chaos Theory! Real infiltration! No one notices that you were here. It's a great addition to the game. But it is really counterbalanced by a "*)"*(/ checkpoint system instead of free savegame. E.g. how are you supposed to get through HQ special missions without being noticed in the server room ? I've done nearly 30 attempts and still no luck. With a savegame I could at least go to the room at the other side and try again from there.

    Regarding SvM, I'm glad there is a "classic mode" because the "standard modes" are, well... weird. Spies are more assassins than spies as there is no shadow to hide in. Don't make your multiplayer games with the wrong licence in mind, Ubi.
    By the way I think that the chat system is really poor... like nonexistent. You can't chat between games, when you're dead, etc... only when you are playing and can't really type. xD But it's a common issue in Ubi multiplayer games; I've never seen a good chat system except maybe in... Chaos Theory (\o/ once again this fabulous game as an example). It's hard to make friends and have a good community with chat system like this!

    Last but no least I think that the game is too bright. I never use the Night Vision goggles... (even when adjusting the gamma to the lowest I can still see the three icons and I can assure it's not my screen).


    Well, the game was almost the best on in the series, I hope you'll do even better for the next installment (don't forget to give us back savegame option!).
    It is possible to get through special missions. The beauty of the checkpoint system is that it forces you to develop your play until you can pass the level in the way you want. As for the server room, if you use a drone to knock out the guy on the cat walk, you can sneak around the cage, and get to the back room with a ladder that leads to underneath the cage.
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  8. #1118
    Dome500's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by SpotyZeus Go to original post
    It is possible to get through special missions. The beauty of the checkpoint system is that it forces you to develop your play until you can pass the level in the way you want. As for the server room, if you use a drone to knock out the guy on the cat walk, you can sneak around the cage, and get to the back room with a ladder that leads to underneath the cage.
    No, it is not a beauty of it.

    The problem it instead of letting you choose how to do things it forces you to do it.

    Some people might want to save every 2 minutes, but that's their thing.
    Some people might want to play the whole mission without saving, again, it's for them to decide with quick-/manual -saves.
    Some people might want to play entire sections without any saves but save in the same way as checkpoints.

    I don't say we need a checkpoint-free game.

    Dishonored and Deus Ex HR both have Autosaves (Checkpoints) and Manual Saves. Why not have it that way?
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  9. #1119
    xPLAY3R1x's Avatar Senior Member
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    Better Single Player Deniable Ops Maps in Next Splinter Cell

    I apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but I bought the game on UPlay during the Memorial Day sale, and being a SC, Tom Clancy (R6, GR) veteran, I feel I have to voice some of my thoughts on Blacklist. I am sure these points were made in the previous 113 pages, so once again, I apologize for repeating them, but hopefully I will bring a new perspective if they have already been addressed?

    My biggest constructive criticism of SC: BL is they gutted the Deniable Ops mode from Conviction, much to my dismay.

    I know Conviction itself had a split audience (love it, hate it), but I thoroughly enjoyed this single player mode... and continue to enjoy it to this day... Because it gives tremendous replay value once you finish the main campaign and don't care about MP like myself. Infiltration, Hunter or Horde mode never plays out the same way twice. Ever. That adds tremendous value and longevity to the game which is very rare in this day and age and Conviction is already four years old!

    I was glad Deniable Ops was included in SC: BL in the form of 4E side-missions given by the supporting characters. This works very well because it's a more effective way of organizing the different types of game modes without breaking immersion. It's probably been mentioned numerous times, but I think Grim's missions were the best in Blacklist, in my opinion. "Billionare's Yacht" stands out because this one map gets back to the core essence of SC in every way, and this is coming for somebody who doesn't play infiltration (almost exclusively Hunter) in Conviction.

    Speaking of Kobin's hunter missions, this is the biggest disappointment when compared to Conviction's SP & CO-OP maps.

    The Conviction maps -- that accommodated all four game modes; SP and CO-OP -- Felt like real places and were twice as big in comparison to those shipped with BL.

    For example, "Printing Press" felt like a real commercial printing site because you started on the shipping docks, moved to the offices/reception, then to the paper warehouse, then to the actual printing press room and finally to the receiving docks where large industrial rolls of paper and other supplies were stored. Mozdock Grounds is HUGE and can literally take hours to go from start to finish in both SP and MP. The San Francisco docks + ship map is another prime example of large open space that resembles a real world location to a tee.

    In contrast, the hunter maps in BL are limited to two small areas that are pretty linear, unfortunately.

    So, as a long-time SC fan, all I ask is that in the next SC game that you continue to provide more replay value in the SP with Deniable Ops, but please, make the maps larger and resemble real places like they did in Conviction.

    Also, please, make ALL the maps playable in SP or CO-OP and don't limit them to certain modes. Make them like some of the 4E maps are now where only certain routes are accessible online (with a partner), but other than that, you should be able to play ALL maps in SP with just Sam, or whoever the operative is.
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  10. #1120
    xPLAY3R1x's Avatar Senior Member
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    More Thoughts on Blacklist SP

    I finished the campaign and all the 4E missions, so this is my take on the SP portion since I do not play online.

    Sam's movement feels very sluggish and clunky. I know there was criticism of the movement in Conviction and how he moved like Spider-Man, but it's not the speed of the animations, it's the fact the devs are trying to be bring realism to a game that was NEVER realistic to begin with, ironically. It's not realistic to stand on a ledge directly behind a guard in broad day light and the guard not see, or sense you! So, when they try and make the game "realistic" it often works against itself in various ways.

    A prime example of where so-called realism works against the game is some of the hand-to-hand, knock out animations are too long and you can't cancel them while they are being performed.

    I grabbed a guard from behind in a dimly lit area and was knocking him out (squeezing him), but then his buddy entered the area, detected me and promptly killed me because I could NOT cancel the knock out animation once it started. I know the kill animations are must faster, but the vast majority of players use non-lethal (if at all) simply because it's different and has always been what makes Sam Fisher different from all the other video game protagonists. There has to be a happy medium, or at least, allow us to cancel any animations if needed.

    The cover system was perfect in Conviction and was the most fluid and elegant I have ever played in any third-person game. Using the left trigger to "stick" to walls and corners was very intuitive and it allowed you to pivot while in cover and control Sam/Archer/Kestrel with accuracy versus the very clunky "press button to stuck/unstick" from a corner mechanic that most third-person games use. I hope the next SC game they return to the trigger-sticking mechanic while still giving us as many options as we have now since it's literally just a control mapping variable.

    As far as mission structures go...

    I skimmed some of the previous pages and it's pretty much unanimous:

    -No forced first person shooter missions (Briggs) in the next game

    I know the devs did this to change things up and to introduce Spies vs. Mercs, but it just does not work in a game that is meant to be third-person because it literally pulls you out of the game and turns it into another game entirely. I do not like first person shooters, so when I am forced to play one in a game I bought because it is primarily third-person this is something I remember opposed to the better parts of the game.

    -Forced action sequences that are not Splinter Cell in nature

    The subway sequence in "Transit Yard" is the most infamous in BL, and I know I am not alone when I say this part of the mission is a complete fail in terms of design and testing. It's not so much the actual task of taking out bad guys while being surrounded by civilians. It's the fact the devs give you no room to maneuver -- literally and figuratively -- That make this one of the most un-Splinter Cell like missions ever to be put in a SC game similar to the Iraq mission in Conviction.

    Sam and the player are given no real options to deal with the bad guys while on the train. Sam can't go on the roof, Sam can't use the under carriage, Sam can't even shoot out the lights before the bad guys see him, etc. It's a pure corridor shooter sequence played in third-person with no choice other than lethal or non-lethal and that's it. Then there is the "Break Window" sequence that was obviously not tested because whether Sam survives or not is completely random no matter how hard you try to duck, take cover or whatever once you bust through the window. Again, being forced down a path with no options is not what Splinter Cell was built on and mission sequences like this should be avoided at all times when necessary.

    A side observation that goes along with the subway sequence is any time the devs make the player lose control of Sam and force him into a confrontation he/the player would normally avoid, or bi-pass is just lazy game design and not in the spirit of SC in my humble opinion. SC has always had action setpieces, but they always gave control back to the player at crucial moments and let them decide how they wanted to proceed (lethal, non-lethal, or undetected).

    -Enemy AI detection inconsistent

    The biggest offender (for me) was the Heavy Soldiers. I literally lost some of the hunter missions because I left a Heavy as the last target on the map, stalked him for a good four or five minutes just to get into the right position (behind him) and then he whips around like a robot and promptly kills me, or denies my hand-to-hand when I followed the rules the game set up for these NPCs, supposedly. Also, denying hand-to-hand take downs is one of the most un-Splinter Cell-like things I have seen because the whole point of playing these games is to live out the power fantasy of being a special ops soldier whom no one can stop. I know hand-to-hand denial was in Conviction and it might be good for SvM, but the SP is an entirely different experience, in my opinion.

    Overall, however, the enemy detection was either too weak or too sensitive. Enemies from across a dimly lit room would spot me behind a crate whereas I can be crouched right next to a guard with a light above us and the guard would not see me at all! The big "cheat" in the game is the cover position, but even when you are just crouched besides a guard in the situation I described above is a perfect example of how inconsistent the detection is in this game and it is a major sticking point since this is a stealth game that relies on players being detected, or not.

    -Promoting Panther and Speed Runs

    It's obvious (to me) the devs design the missions around Panther style of play... Which is OK because you can choose to go non-lethal and rack up Ghost points... But what I don't like is the fact they also promote what are essentially Speed Runs if you want to play Perfectionist/Ghost style. This may not be something new, but I think the leader boards emphasize this more than in any other SC game. Of course, you can play the game anyway you want and it won't effect anybody else, but I feel if I buy the game I should play it the way I want without (once again) being forced to play it a certain way just to be on a leader board, or feel like I am playing it the "correct" way as it were.

    The best part of the game were Grim's Infiltration missions and probably the Iran HQ mission because that is what SC is based around: Get in, do something, and get out without the enemy ever knowing you were there if you choose to play that way. I am glad that knocking guards out counts toward Ghost because to me, a stealth game isn't just avoiding everything (how boring!), but silently dispatching guards when you have to in order to achieve your goal. I am glad BL has gone back to the lethal, non-lethal choice in this regard because it gives players more freedom for how they want to play the game, but at the same time the devs work against this at various points by forcing the player to do things they want done to satisfy a story beat, or because of lazy level design.
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