The True Story of Christmas | Forums

[krazyfrenchman]

Some time ago, I watched a documentary on Discovery Channel. Specialists were explaining that in Christianity's first centuries (probably until The First Council of Nicaea), there were no real interrogations about Jesus' date of birth. However, from the mid-second century AD, pagan gods/goddesses worshiping was still strong, especially among army regulars and militiamen, so a date was chosen for the birth of Christ, one which will coincide with a pagan god/goddess (whose followers have sufficient influence) calendar celebration. December 25th was thus chosen (over time and practice) because it coincided with the calendar celebration of the pagan god Mithra, whose followers (mostly soldiers) could have easily upset the fragile balance in a multi-religious Rome where many faiths were cohabiting together. Let's not forget that in the Julian Calendar, the end of the solar year was a meaningful period with charities, feasts, jubilees, parades, public festivities & celebrations. All in all, it was the right period to fix Jesus' date of birth and thus strengthening the growing Christians' position and influence so as to have their religion become over time Rome's official faith.

I hope that it explains a great deal.

[WernherVonTrapp]

You are partially correct sir. The date was also influened by the celebration of the Winter Solstice and the Scandanavian (or Viking) Yule season, among other things.

[MWolfe1963]

I avoid debating the Gospel, or bickering over specific issues. We're even instructed not to do so in the Bible by the apostle Paul. I've worshipped in the Catholic church and many other denominations; Pentecostal, Baptists, Church of the Nazarene, Christian Reformed, etc.. To me, we're all brothers and sisters in Christ, despite the minor differences over specific doctrine. I've been a born again Christian longer than I can remember, almost from childhood. The important thing is the foundation on which we build our faiths, and that foundation is Christ Jesus.

I enjoy sincere debate that creates more questions. Mostly, I enjoy early world history and languages. Course, I would rather watch the great debaters of all faiths, which was required in college. I've attended a few Ehrman debates since he lives nearby. Hard debate has a way of crushing your faith and making you build it back up again...However, I don't think it's a good idea for many.

Most cops I know eventually get an "eye" to recollect everything they see and hear...either an internal gift or years of being on the job.

[WernherVonTrapp]

...
Most cops I know eventually get an "eye" to recollect everything they see and hear...either an internal gift or years of being on the job.

Well then, if it's a gift, I seem to have misplaced mine and cannot remember where I put it. Now, where the heck did I put my glasses?

[krazyfrenchman]

You are partially correct sir. The date was also influened by the celebration of the Winter Solstice and the Scandanavian (or Viking) Yule season, among other things.

The documentary failed from mentioning this, hence this is why I have not reported it. We can assume that it must have played a part to Christ's "appointed" date of birth; but since the Christian Faith have crossed the Rhin and the Baltic sea and took hold in Germany and the Norselands (Scandinavia) only much later during the early to mid Middle Ages, we can fairly answer that it did not "appoint" the date itself but helped it be recognized and accepted across Northern Europe (but not for Christian Orthodox, among others), especially where the influence of Norse mythology was kept alive in communities with strong oral traditions and folklore.

[denis4510]

Wern - I haven't read all the replies to your post but when I started the thread to wish to all a happy Christmas, I did not seek to impose my views on you all.

I abore the commercialisation of the Anniversary of Christ's birth whether or not it be the exact date or not. It does in fact coincide with the winter solstice in the Northern hemisphere and the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere. (Pardon my spelling)

But again it is the principle of the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas explains it fairly well about the dates. EDIT: Of course the Christian religion and many others are not the only ones to adopt the "local" religious dates to adapt to their own - the Romans had that down pat.

I agree with your thoughts. Thank you for raising the matter.

EDIT: I also hate the fact that some call it Happy Holidays and forget the true meaning.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Wern - I haven't read all the replies to your post but when I started the thread to wish to all a happy Christmas, I did not seek to impose my views on you all.

Fret not denis, I don't believe anyone felt that way. As usual, I seem to have taken the ball and started running with it.

The documentary failed from mentioning this, hence this is why I have not reported it. We can assume that it must have played a part to Christ's "appointed" date of birth; but since the Christian Faith have crossed the Rhin and the Baltic sea and took hold in Germany and the Norselands (Scandinavia) only much later during the early to mid Middle Ages, we can fairly answer that it did not "appoint" the date itself but helped it be recognized and accepted across Northern Europe (but not for Christian Orthodox, among others), especially where the influence of Norse mythology was kept alive in communities with strong oral traditions and folklore.

I think it was mentioned in the documentary, concerning Christmas traditions that is, somewhere around the "12 days of Christmas" section.
Anyway, I cannot recall where I heard this from since it was so long ago, and I cannot verify the exact source or validate it's accuracy, but according to a source I once heard, they have been able to narrow the actual timeline of Christ's birth through ancient Roman taxation census records, which were traditionally taken by the Romans (if I recall correctly) sometime between mid February until mid or late April.

[MWolfe1963]

We can thank Constantine for Dec. 25, he wanted the birth of Christ to be during his favorite festival of the Sun God.

It's confusing, as the gospel give differing accounts, so hard to know the exact year, probably 4-7BCE, but as Wern stated....

Luke2:2 And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria. 2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem;
(because he was of the house and lineage of David 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

[krazyfrenchman]

In retrospect, what is weird; over time, Christian Roman officials and influential Church bishops chose December 25th (as I explained in a previous post, coinciding with the calendar celebration of pagan God Mithra) but at the same time exactly seven days to January 1st (being any New Year's first day); in turn exactly the time that needs to be elapsed before circumcision on a male infant be ritually performed in accordance to Jewish traditions. So on one hand, you have experts explaining that Christ's "appointed" date of birth is based on rituals towards a pagan god, on the other hand, you have experts explaining that the seven days period is from Judaism. And both go hand in hand on top of that!

I personally believe that all this has been played --over many centuries!-- through occurring circumstances. And at the same time, it is the World's most unbelievable coincidence. How is it possible that all this happened to be logically answered by historians and experts while not being out of phase with Judaism's ritual practices is beyond me. It just fell into place --to their benefit-- as a "one hundred percent WIN // WIN scenario".