OT/ School shootings. | Forums

[Maverick_U2007]

I hope all these other country's and their people I see on the news watch what they say, or we'll bomb them....it's the American way.

I presume you meant this as some sort of sick joke??

[Maverick_U2007]

I turn your attention to this article...
http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-...ntally-ill-son

My wife and I have one of these unfortunate human beings in our home and it hasn't been easy. We were forced to 302 the kid last year when he dropped off the deep end and spent an entire day terrorizing his mother with threats of suicide to the point of repeatedly mimicking the act of cutting his wrists with a guitar pick. He suffers from rapid cycling bipolar disorder you see and there are no long term treatment facilities available. So, we do the best we can. He had adamantly refused treatment prior to me going to the hospital and filling out the paperwork to force him into treatment. He is highly intelligent and knows how to manipulate the doctors into releasing him every time he has an episode. At least until this last go around where I finally put my foot down and told the wife that if he returned to our home, I would leave. Period! Thank God, she agreed with me and he was told that upon his release from the hospital, he had no place to go other than a shelter.
It snapped him out of his plan to continue terrorizing us to get what he wanted, when he wanted it. A new doctor, one of a long line, has finally got him on the right medications and he has cooled his jets.
We forced him to sign a contract of acceptable behavior prior to his return, under threat of final and permanent eviction.


So, you see, it's not the readily available weapons that are the problem. This boy, threatened to cut my throat at one time. My reply was; "Then you had best do a good job of it if you do. Otherwise, you will be unrecognizable at your funeral." He's been kissing my arse ever since.
But I still keep a wary eye on him.

That article is a good read and as for your current home situation I take my hat off to you. Takes some patience to deal with that and not everyone would be capable of it.

[MWolfe1963]

The UK does have its fair share of gangs, crime, race stress etc as you describe. But here, the people, were not prepared to stand idly by and were vociferous in their condemnation of incidents where innocents were shot and killed by the use of firearms. It reinforced the decision taken years earlier as the correct stance to take. We will never rid the UK of illegal firearms but it is a lot harder for the criminals to obtain them. But it didn't happen overnight and it is an ongoing and endless fight to rid the streets of them.

No-one thus far has come on this thread and said anything that dismisses this given right to bear arms. In other words, 'yep something needs to be done but leave my lawfully owned guns out the equation'. People can still own shotguns in the UK with which they can hunt. Surely you could deal with the issue of legitimate hunting if you start to look at your firearms ownership. 'If' is the operative word - whilst you condemn the actions of this individual you do not appear to want to change.

Why am I involved in this thread when I am from the UK? - because my sister is an American Citizen and my niece is 6 years old and I would not like her to become a statistic in the future because it is too difficult for a nation to deal with an issue over the 'right to bear arms'.

America is vastly different than the UK, just 150 years ago we were in Civil War and the Wild West concept.

The bigger issue to me is we only talk about gun laws when we face a mass shooting like this where they really don't apply. Gun laws may have some effect with stopping the angry person { 3 day wait period}, prevent accidents, etc, but they will never stop the determined nut or mentally ill person. We have 1000's of murders every year, every city in the US has it's own war zone of gangs with real assault weapons. etc... A big issue is the number of family shootings, disgruntled spouses, etc....We have numerous cases where husbands kill their wives and the wife knew it was coming, but could do little. Often a man threatens to kill a wife, she calls cops, gets restraining orders, doesn't work..so often the woman buys a gun.

Sure, we can enact numerous gun rules, they will have minor impact on the general population, but no amount of gun laws will stop people like Adam.

[MWolfe1963]

I presume you meant this as some sort of sick joke??

I believe that was sarcasm reflecting Americans love things that go boom.

[donna577]

I believe that was sarcasm reflecting Americans love things that go boom.

You are correct.

[Wolferz]

That article is a good read and as for your current home situation I take my hat off to you. Takes some patience to deal with that and not everyone would be capable of it.

Believe me, Mav, there have been numerous occasions where I contemplated cuffing this kid and marching him out into the woods for some aggressive therapy. But, I'm the easy going sort and let most of his verbal ammo bounce off. It's his manipulation of his mother through fear that chaps me the most. But one should never come between a mother and her offspring. So, you just let it ride until the opportunity presents itself to gain remedy through legal methods.
I mentioned he is intelligent and he knows where to hit the brakes just short of police action most of the time. He found out he wasn't as smart as he thought he was after I had a local LEO pick him up with involuntary intake orders. I recall when I gave the paperwork to the officer, asking me if he was going to be a problem. I said, don't think so but you never know. But most likely he'll deflate like a balloon. He was angry, but deflated like I said he would and he went quietly.
I suspect that this kid and his mother in Connecticutt were in similar straits to the ones I related above.
My wife also owns numerous weapons that are not toally secured from our resident loon. But, we keep no ammunition where he can get at it. Besides, I can deal with an intruder or even him with an unloaded weapon.
BUTT Stroke To the head and hold!
BUTT stroke to the groin and hold!

They'd fold up like a Venetian blind.

[Maverick_U2007]

America is vastly different than the UK, just 150 years ago we were in Civil War and the Wild West concept.

The bigger issue to me is we only talk about gun laws when we face a mass shooting like this where they really don't apply. Gun laws may have some effect with stopping the angry person { 3 day wait period}, prevent accidents, etc, but they will never stop the determined nut or mentally ill person. We have 1000's of murders every year, every city in the US has it's own war zone of gangs with real assault weapons. etc... A big issue is the number of family shootings, disgruntled spouses, etc....We have numerous cases where husbands kill their wives and the wife knew it was coming, but could do little. Often a man threatens to kill a wife, she calls cops, gets restraining orders, doesn't work..so often the woman buys a gun.

Sure, we can enact numerous gun rules, they will have minor impact on the general population, but no amount of gun laws will stop people like Adam.

So what do you do - nothing?. That is the point I am making.

150 years in modern times is a massive amount of time. Invented in that time have been the petrol engine, the motor car, computers, nuclear bombs (for Donna to go boom with!), the internet, we have visited Mars and beyond and Americans (amongst others) have stood on the moon.

In the UK we have realised that guns in the hands of a madman causes carnage. We also realised that if you take away the ability of the madman to get his hands on weapons then the likelihood of a repeat of previous carnage can, to some degree, be curbed.

The criminals are a different thing altogether. I know that all too well. When I was in the police on three separate occasions I was confronted with an armed criminal. On one occasion I was armed with a baton, better reflexes and more than a little bit of luck. The other 2 occasions I had nothing apart from a mouth with which to reason. The outcome - well I can still write these posts. That does not happen now. My point though is that there are no longer limitless weapons for the criminal to choose from and more often than not they are using firearms that have been adapted to be capable of shooting ammunition. Why? - because we closed the gun shops and retailers down. 14 years down the line and the chances of you being attacked with a firearm are drastically reduced. Gun amnesties have reduced the available numbers even further. It doesn't end it all - nothing ever will. But it reduces the risk.

I have been to the US on numerous occasions and admire what you have achieved in those 150 years. The UK is not perfect and neither is the US - BUT and it is a big BUT - I feel far safer here than I have ever done when I visited your country - and that is a shame.

It doesn't matter what you do to address the issue - but anything, anything at all is better than doing nothing, crossing your fingers and praying that it doesn't happen again - well, too soon again anyway.

Keep your kids close to you and I wish you all the best.

Stay safe.

[MWolfe1963]

So what do you do - nothing?. That is the point I am making.

150 years in modern times is a massive amount of time. Invented in that time have been the petrol engine, the motor car, computers, nuclear bombs (for Donna to go boom with!), the internet, we have visited Mars and beyond and Americans (amongst others) have stood on the moon.

In the UK we have realised that guns in the hands of a madman causes carnage. We also realised that if you take away the ability of the madman to get his hands on weapons then the likelihood of a repeat of previous carnage can, to some degree, be curbed.

The criminals are a different thing altogether. I know that all too well. When I was in the police on three separate occasions I was confronted with an armed criminal. On one occasion I was armed with a baton, better reflexes and more than a little bit of luck. The other 2 occasions I had nothing apart from a mouth with which to reason. The outcome - well I can still write these posts. That does not happen now. My point though is that there are no longer limitless weapons for the criminal to choose from and more often than not they are using firearms that have been adapted to be capable of shooting ammunition. Why? - because we closed the gun shops and retailers down. 14 years down the line and the chances of you being attacked with a firearm are drastically reduced. Gun amnesties have reduced the available numbers even further. It doesn't end it all - nothing ever will. But it reduces the risk.

I have been to the US on numerous occasions and admire what you have achieved in those 150 years. The UK is not perfect and neither is the US - BUT and it is a big BUT - I feel far safer here than I have ever done when I visited your country - and that is a shame.

It doesn't matter what you do to address the issue - but anything, anything at all is better than doing nothing, crossing your fingers and praying that it doesn't happen again - well, too soon again anyway.

Keep your kids close to you and I wish you all the best.

Stay safe.

We have been doing many things over the years, most our cities have strict gun laws, the problem is criminals and nuts don't follow laws. The issue in America is that no amount of gun laws seems to have effect, so law abiding people want the right to be armed. Will mass gun laws work, they may save a few lives on one end, but cost the lives of people on the other who can't defend themselves. America has been a gun culture since it's conception. Real numbers suggest we probably have 500 million illegally or unregistered guns. Real assault weapons are banned, but if you want a fully auto rifle, you can get one. It's a very complex situation.

There can also be no doubt culture plays a role. When I grew up, there were no gun laws to any extent and overall crime was much lower. Our children are growing in a different world, violence is glorified. We had heroes like Roy Rogers, today everything is gray, no distiction between good and bad. The average 12 year old has 6 rated M violent video games, gore is on TV 24 hours a day. Not to preach religion, but it's clear a moral vacuum was left when we became a more secular nation. I'm all for seperation of church and state, but moral vacuums have to be filled and certainly you don't have to be religious to have morals. We have to rethink our culture of violence on every level.

I've already watched a few local reports here, as usual gun sales are way up, one dealer said he had his best week in 10 years.

It may seem silly, but a large percentage of Americans don't trust government. Our history and thought process is the government can't turn on an armed public, crazy as it sounds, history proves this.

In the end, I'm for more changes, the fact is they're coming, they may save a few lives, but these killings will continue in our current culture, moreso as we become a poorer nation.

[Maverick_U2007]

We have been doing many things over the years, most our cities have strict gun laws, the problem is criminals and nuts don't follow laws. The issue in America is that no amount of gun laws seems to have effect, so law abiding people want the right to be armed. Will mass gun laws work, they may save a few lives on one end, but cost the lives of people on the other who can't defend themselves. America has been a gun culture since it's conception. Real numbers suggest we probably have 500 million illegally or unregistered guns. Real assault weapons are banned, but if you want a fully auto rifle, you can get one. It's a very complex situation.

There can also be no doubt culture plays a role. When I grew up, there were no gun laws to any extent and overall crime was much lower. Our children are growing in a different world, violence is glorified. We had heroes like Roy Rogers, today everything is gray, no distiction between good and bad. The average 12 year old has 6 rated M violent video games, gore is on TV 24 hours a day. Not to preach religion, but it's clear a moral vacuum was left when we became a more secular nation. I'm all for seperation of church and state, but moral vacuums have to be filled and certainly you don't have to be religious to have morals. We have to rethink our culture of violence on every level.

I've already watched a few local reports here, as usual gun sales are way up, one dealer said he had his best week in 10 years.

It may seem silly, but a large percentage of Americans don't trust government. Our history and thought process is the government can't turn on an armed public, crazy as it sounds, history proves this.

In the end, I'm for more changes, the fact is they're coming, they may save a few lives, but these killings will continue in our current culture, moreso as we become a poorer nation.

You and I grewup as part of the same generation (3 years apart if you username is a guide) and I have seen the same as you.

What is heartening though is your comment that you make the comment - "in the end, I'm for more changes". Just needs some more like you.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I believe no amount of gun laws will ever eradicate the problem entirely. I also believe that, like it or not, guns are here to stay in the USA and for a number of reasons, very little of which have to do with culture. Privately owned guns are what won this country it's freedom (no disrespect to our British cousins), on more than one occasion. Guns were incorporated into our Constitution via amendments in order "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Here in the USA, we have a much larger border to secure where guns can easily be smuggled in by any faction, group or nation as a means to terrorize or undermine our government or infrastructure. We stand out much farther among all nations as a target of hatred not because of our Government's policies, rather, I believe because we are a predominantly Christian nation that has been blessed "from sea to shining sea".

This of course, causes hatred and envy among other nations who can only stand by, scratching their heads and wondering how a country that has been in existence only a short time (as world history would have it), has become so prosperous and powerful.
Unfortunately, as the numbers of true Christians diminishes in this country over the past decades, so too does the presence of the Holy Spirit who dwells in our bodies' temples, and so too the blessings that accompany those Christians. A tree is recognized by it's fruit and the fruit of Adam Lanza was the senseless, evil, slaughter of innocent children. This was not the fruit of a true Christian and is reminiscent of the signs of the times (i.e., the ever decreasing presence and blessings of our Lord). For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction, hence a Godly nation will be set upon by the ungodly, on all sides. We've seen it throughout the Cold War and we're seeing it emerge again despite the long passing of Glasnost and the increasing hatred arising in the middle east.

Israel is suffering the same fate (beset on all sides) and has throughout history. That's because the Almighty God has set his mark upon that nation. To me, it's more than just, obvious. Guns, which have existed in this country long before frequent mass murders, is not the issue, it's just the tool of choice. Murder, mass murder and evil have existed throughout history long before the advent of firearms. Firearms are merely the most recent veil pulled over the face of evil and hatred in order to take our attention away from the real problem.