OT/ School shootings. | Forums

[WernherVonTrapp]

What troubles me is the sudden, all too coincidental shift of targeting toward our institutions of learning, mass killings and the especially hardened hearts that target little innocent children. We saw it start at schools from Columbine, spread through Russia and China, sometimes under the guise/ruse of some cause, and now it's spreading more rapidly and indiscriminately. Does no one else see a pattern here??? Terrorism whether organized under the disguise of some rediculous cause or individual with or without a similar veil?

Not that weapons don't weigh somewhere in the balance but it's a simple, hopefully obvious, fact that a hard heart kills, not the weapon of choice.

[Maverick_U2007]

Not that weapons don't weigh somewhere in the balance but it's a simple, hopefully obvious, fact that a hard heart kills, not the weapon of choice.

Not going to disagree with anything you say but why make it so easy for them in the first place. Why not start to at least make things look a little harder. Wolferz says that in some states it is a matter of choice for the individual as to whether a firearm is locked away.

Do company's there leave sticks of dynamite or C4 lying about - probably not I have no doubts that there will be strict laws as to their safe handling etc. Then why not place the same strict controls on the individuals. Do the gun manufacturers and owners have so much sway that no-one is prepared to stand up and make a stance on the issue.

200 years ago the US kicked the Brits out of their country. Our mindset in the UK has changed over the years, why can't the same apply in the US. We have things here forced upon us - the banning of the holding of guns, hunting of foxes etc. In the end people forget about what they once had and now accept what they have now. Are their lives blighted because they cannot hold guns or hunt foxes. In the first instance probably but they adapt. That is what being human is all about.

You have a culture that accepts firearms. But that is a choice. There is also a choice to alter it. The younger generation are now growing up believing that the ownership of firearms is the normal thing to do. It needs to change. It will be a brave person who does it. Someone with a bit of courage. Just someone who looked at the innocent slaughter of 26 people and makes the decision not to embrace the firearms culture - that is a start.

I used to smoke heavily until someone told me that they would kill me. Do I miss them - yes I could smoke one everyday. But have I saved a life - yes I have. My own.

Just because you kicked our butts 200 years ago and used firearms to have the freedoms that you enjoy today doesn't mean to say that your desire for firearm ownership has to continue.

Today - an hour ago the BBC showed the faces of the 26 people who were slaughtered. the faces of 20 innocent kids rolled down the screen like the credits for a film. Gut wrenching.


Maverick steps down from soapbox.

[WernherVonTrapp]

So that I'm not misunderstood, I have always agreed with the gun laws here in NJ where we are one of, if not thee, strictest in it's application of the laws toward firearms. It is true what you say about guns being too readily available in every way, shape and form. Gun dealers leave assault rifles in glass cases overnight, homeowners leave them hanging over a fireplace. There absolutely should be stricter laws, across the board, as to the maintaining and securing of all firearms.
I hate guns. Though it's probably easier for me to obtain one faster than the average citizen, I own only 2. A single shot 12 guage and a small .380 cal. that is less powerful & lethal should an errant shot go through a wall. Mine are always locked and secured from others in the house. Though the News media vultures have already admitted to numerous misprints and reportings of the facts involving this case, they now suggest that the mother owned more than one high powered weapon and that her son was diagnosed with a personality disorder.

Though I agree with Donna that there should be nothing abnormal about a female owning a firearm, especially if she is an enthusiast and practices her hobby. But a suburban housewife who has no history (so far) of ever practicing at a firing range, owning more than one assault rifle, leaves a lot of room for questions. Assault rifles make bad home defense weapons. They'll not only go through your own wall, but will travel through your neighbors' as well, injuring or killing someone inside. A shotgum with bird shot is an excellent choice since the small lead pellets will dispatch any intruder but quickly lose lethality once they ricochet and flatten out, or lose momentum through a sheetrock wall. A handgun would serve the same purpose for home defense, but I still have unanswered questions about her desire or need to own one or more assault weapons.

I have spoken to or heard some applicants who request a firearms ID card or Pistol Purchaser's Permit here in NJ. On more than one occasion, when asked why they wish to purchase a firearm, I have heard everything from; "Because I just want one" to "Because I can". Of course there have been many verified collectors and hunters apply as well, but at least give a reason, say something like, "for home defense".
I don't disagree with you Maverick, but I can't see punishing the law abiding citizen who vastly outnumbers the criminals by imposing stricter gun laws that have done nothing to stop the "criminal element" as we have learned with the Brady Bill. Something more needs to be done.

[Maverick_U2007]

I don't disagree with you Maverick, but I can't see punishing the law abiding citizen who vastly outnumbers the criminals by imposing stricter gun laws that have done nothing to stop the "criminal element" as we have learned with the Brady Bill. Something more needs to be done.

Its a fact of life that the minority will ALWAYS spoil it for the majority. But if it saves a life - so be it.

[MWolfe1963]

Our nation is much different. If we passed a law tomorrow banning all guns, it would take a generation before it had any impact on crime. The US is a diverse melting pot, sadly full of gangs, crime, race stress, etc. We would have to deal with many years of law abiding people suffering at the hands of armed criminals. Every year millions of crimes are averted or stopped because of a legal firearm. Just as people scream about this, it wouldn't be long someone would be angry that his family was killed because they couldn't protect them. Yes, they're millions of Americans that choose not to own a firearm for protection. Each year police depts get 1000's of 911 calls of screaming people where a criminal is coming in the house and they have no way to protect themselves. Often you hear them getting killed why on the phone or found dead, beaten or raped when the cops arrive.

You're nation gave up fox hunting, in America hunting is a tradition that feeds millions of families. If it weren't for hunting to control animal populations, entire species would overpopulate, destroy farm lands, etc....

With all the talk of gun control, another fact, after a shooting like this, gun sales increase 1000%. Anytime our government even talks about more gun laws, millions go out and buy more guns, stockpile ammo, etc....If they start debating clips, the sale of clips will go sky high. Right now the majority aren't willing to give up the right to protect themselves because criminals commit crimes.

[Maverick_U2007]

The UK does have its fair share of gangs, crime, race stress etc as you describe. But here, the people, were not prepared to stand idly by and were vociferous in their condemnation of incidents where innocents were shot and killed by the use of firearms. It reinforced the decision taken years earlier as the correct stance to take. We will never rid the UK of illegal firearms but it is a lot harder for the criminals to obtain them. But it didn't happen overnight and it is an ongoing and endless fight to rid the streets of them.

No-one thus far has come on this thread and said anything that dismisses this given right to bear arms. In other words, 'yep something needs to be done but leave my lawfully owned guns out the equation'. People can still own shotguns in the UK with which they can hunt. Surely you could deal with the issue of legitimate hunting if you start to look at your firearms ownership. 'If' is the operative word - whilst you condemn the actions of this individual you do not appear to want to change.

Why am I involved in this thread when I am from the UK? - because my sister is an American Citizen and my niece is 6 years old and I would not like her to become a statistic in the future because it is too difficult for a nation to deal with an issue over the 'right to bear arms'.

[Wolferz]

I turn your attention to this article...
http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-...ntally-ill-son

My wife and I have one of these unfortunate human beings in our home and it hasn't been easy. We were forced to 302 the kid last year when he dropped off the deep end and spent an entire day terrorizing his mother with threats of suicide to the point of repeatedly mimicking the act of cutting his wrists with a guitar pick. He suffers from rapid cycling bipolar disorder you see and there are no long term treatment facilities available. So, we do the best we can. He had adamantly refused treatment prior to me going to the hospital and filling out the paperwork to force him into treatment. He is highly intelligent and knows how to manipulate the doctors into releasing him every time he has an episode. At least until this last go around where I finally put my foot down and told the wife that if he returned to our home, I would leave. Period! Thank God, she agreed with me and he was told that upon his release from the hospital, he had no place to go other than a shelter.
It snapped him out of his plan to continue terrorizing us to get what he wanted, when he wanted it. A new doctor, one of a long line, has finally got him on the right medications and he has cooled his jets.
We forced him to sign a contract of acceptable behavior prior to his return, under threat of final and permanent eviction.


So, you see, it's not the readily available weapons that are the problem. This boy, threatened to cut my throat at one time. My reply was; "Then you had best do a good job of it if you do. Otherwise, you will be unrecognizable at your funeral." He's been kissing my arse ever since.
But I still keep a wary eye on him.

[donna577]

I hope all these other country's and their people I see on the news watch what they say, or we'll bomb them....it's the American way.

[Wolferz]

I hope all these other country's and their people I see on the news watch what they say, or we'll bomb them....it's the American way.

It's not my way!

"Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering"
Our government uses fear like a weapon and it's time to stop it.
It seems that our history has been replete with a continuous foe to fear. When one foe folds, another is invented to take its place to continue the campaign of fear.
It's way past time for that to cease. I fear nothing other than our almighty God.

"We have met the enemy and he is us"

[donna577]

It's not my way!

"Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering"
Our government uses fear like a weapon and it's time to stop it.
It seems that our history has been replete with a continuous foe to fear. When one foe folds, another is invented to take its place to continue the campaign of fear.
It's way past time for that to cease. I fear nothing other than our almighty God.

"We have met the enemy and he is us"