1. #1
    Hi Oleg,

    I would like to ask you to include two "new-old" types of planes in the planeset with only minor modifications needed : The 109 F-4 at it`s increased boost in 1942, and the 109 G-2 at it`s increased boost as in 1943, at 1.42ata.

    Both of these planes were initially restricted in use of maximum boost because of various problems with overheating. To overcome this, as a temporary measure, maximum allowed boost was decreased from 1.42ata to 1.3ata. This were solved later onwards, but in Il-2, we only have the earliest variants with the limited boosts.

    Since many planes like the Spit, P-47, FW 190A, FW 190D etc. have different flight models representing the increased maximum boost that can be used during the year (1941, 1942, 1943 etc. variants), I think it`s fair to ask to also include this for the 109 series as well. It would require ZERO 3D model work, as the planes were the same, just the engine ratings changed. The only difference would be in the flight model, each two aircraft having about 10% more power available, with the resulting change in speed and climb rate etc.

    The current speed specifications, verified by Il-2 compare that is free from measuring errors, lists speed for the F-4 and G-2 that clearly belongs to the 1.30ata boost variants.


    The DB 601E used in the 109F-4 was intitially limited to 1.3ata, 2500 RPM, for 1200 HP at SL in 1941.
    According to Butch2k, this limit was raised in early 1942, during January or February. The full boost of 1.42ata, 2700 RPM, for 1350 HP, was used from onwards. See speed data change for given boosts below.

    The DB 605A used in the 109G-2 was intitially limited to 1.3ata, 2600 RPM, for 1310 HP at SL in June 1942.
    According to Daimler-Benz technical directive as on the 8th June 1943, this limit no longer needed to be used, and the full 1.42ata, 2700 RPM power can be used for 1475 HP at SL.



    BF 109 F-4
    -----------

    Currently the F-4 is modelled with the speed of 1941 variant that was limited to 1.3ata.

    The G-2 in the game has maximum speed of 519 km/h at SL, and 637 km/h at 6000m, according to most recent version of Il-2 Compare.



    A Messerschmitt page (curves for various fighters) shows:

    Bf 109 F-4 (Take-off weight: 2890 kg)

    - Climb & combat, 1.3ata, 2500 RPM (limited boost ratings for 30 minutes use) in 1941:

    525 km/h @ 0 m
    635 km/h @ 6000 m

    This is what speed specs we have in Il-2 AEP as Bf 109F-4. Obviously, the specifications are for the F-4 running at 1.3ata pressure.

    - Emergency power, 1.42ata, 2700 RPM, cleared for use from Spring 1942 onwards:

    540 km/h @ 0 m
    670 km/h @ 6300 m

    Both curves are noted as erflogen (from flight tests).

    This is what we ask for, an 1942 variant of the F-4 with similiar increase in climb rate.


    Another flight test from Rechlin proving center agrees very well with the data :

    Bf 109 F-4 at Rechlin (Kurvenblatt v. E'Stelle Rechlin v. 15.10.41). Take-off weight: 2890 kg

    Combat power/Kampfleistung, 1.3ata, 2500 RPM (limited boost ratings for 30 minutes use) as in 1941:

    - 525 km/h @ 0 m and ~645 km/h @ 6200 m

    Emergency power/Notleisung).1.42ata, 2700 RPM, 3 min rating, cleared for use from Spring 1942 onwards :

    - 540 Km/h @ 0 m and ~670 km/h @ 6300 m



    BF 109 G-2
    -----------


    The case is the same with the G-2.

    Currently the G-2 is modelled with the speed of 1942 variant that was limited to 1.3ata.

    The G-2 in the game does 529 km/h at SL, and 655 km/h at 7000m, according to most recent version of Il-2 Compare.

    This is almost exactly the speed specs for the similiar G-1 at 1.3ata tested in Rechlin, ie. 525 km/h at SL, 649km/h at 7000m:

    http://www.pbase.com/image/5288901

    Even in Soviet tests, however, when tested with the increased 1.42ata setting, showed that the plane is faster, does 665 km/h at 7000m, with similiar increase at SL :


    Soviet testing of G-2 at 1,42ata, performance of the new 1943 model being requested



    To summerize :
    -----------------

    Oleg, if possible, please include the variants of Bf 109 F-4 in it`s 1942, the Bf 109 G-2 in it`s 1943 increased engine ratings, with increased speed and climb.

    I think this is not great deal of work, nothing compared like creating a whole new plane. It`s a fair request, other planes have many-many variants that differ only in engine rating. Why not these two? You would make the fans very happy with little work. I am sure people like Butch2k or others can send you needed data, if you dont have it already.

    There are more 109 F-4 flight results and details at this board :
    http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffe...icID=210.topic

    PS: Please don`t question game data. It`s from recent Il-2compare, not self made flight tests...


    Please take time to answer, we are grateful for your time and for the through consideration of the subject. Thank you again.
    Share this post

  2. #2
    Hi Oleg,

    I would like to ask you to include two "new-old" types of planes in the planeset with only minor modifications needed : The 109 F-4 at it`s increased boost in 1942, and the 109 G-2 at it`s increased boost as in 1943, at 1.42ata.

    Both of these planes were initially restricted in use of maximum boost because of various problems with overheating. To overcome this, as a temporary measure, maximum allowed boost was decreased from 1.42ata to 1.3ata. This were solved later onwards, but in Il-2, we only have the earliest variants with the limited boosts.

    Since many planes like the Spit, P-47, FW 190A, FW 190D etc. have different flight models representing the increased maximum boost that can be used during the year (1941, 1942, 1943 etc. variants), I think it`s fair to ask to also include this for the 109 series as well. It would require ZERO 3D model work, as the planes were the same, just the engine ratings changed. The only difference would be in the flight model, each two aircraft having about 10% more power available, with the resulting change in speed and climb rate etc.

    The current speed specifications, verified by Il-2 compare that is free from measuring errors, lists speed for the F-4 and G-2 that clearly belongs to the 1.30ata boost variants.


    The DB 601E used in the 109F-4 was intitially limited to 1.3ata, 2500 RPM, for 1200 HP at SL in 1941.
    According to Butch2k, this limit was raised in early 1942, during January or February. The full boost of 1.42ata, 2700 RPM, for 1350 HP, was used from onwards. See speed data change for given boosts below.

    The DB 605A used in the 109G-2 was intitially limited to 1.3ata, 2600 RPM, for 1310 HP at SL in June 1942.
    According to Daimler-Benz technical directive as on the 8th June 1943, this limit no longer needed to be used, and the full 1.42ata, 2700 RPM power can be used for 1475 HP at SL.



    BF 109 F-4
    -----------

    Currently the F-4 is modelled with the speed of 1941 variant that was limited to 1.3ata.

    The G-2 in the game has maximum speed of 519 km/h at SL, and 637 km/h at 6000m, according to most recent version of Il-2 Compare.



    A Messerschmitt page (curves for various fighters) shows:

    Bf 109 F-4 (Take-off weight: 2890 kg)

    - Climb & combat, 1.3ata, 2500 RPM (limited boost ratings for 30 minutes use) in 1941:

    525 km/h @ 0 m
    635 km/h @ 6000 m

    This is what speed specs we have in Il-2 AEP as Bf 109F-4. Obviously, the specifications are for the F-4 running at 1.3ata pressure.

    - Emergency power, 1.42ata, 2700 RPM, cleared for use from Spring 1942 onwards:

    540 km/h @ 0 m
    670 km/h @ 6300 m

    Both curves are noted as erflogen (from flight tests).

    This is what we ask for, an 1942 variant of the F-4 with similiar increase in climb rate.


    Another flight test from Rechlin proving center agrees very well with the data :

    Bf 109 F-4 at Rechlin (Kurvenblatt v. E'Stelle Rechlin v. 15.10.41). Take-off weight: 2890 kg

    Combat power/Kampfleistung, 1.3ata, 2500 RPM (limited boost ratings for 30 minutes use) as in 1941:

    - 525 km/h @ 0 m and ~645 km/h @ 6200 m

    Emergency power/Notleisung).1.42ata, 2700 RPM, 3 min rating, cleared for use from Spring 1942 onwards :

    - 540 Km/h @ 0 m and ~670 km/h @ 6300 m



    BF 109 G-2
    -----------


    The case is the same with the G-2.

    Currently the G-2 is modelled with the speed of 1942 variant that was limited to 1.3ata.

    The G-2 in the game does 529 km/h at SL, and 655 km/h at 7000m, according to most recent version of Il-2 Compare.

    This is almost exactly the speed specs for the similiar G-1 at 1.3ata tested in Rechlin, ie. 525 km/h at SL, 649km/h at 7000m:

    http://www.pbase.com/image/5288901

    Even in Soviet tests, however, when tested with the increased 1.42ata setting, showed that the plane is faster, does 665 km/h at 7000m, with similiar increase at SL :


    Soviet testing of G-2 at 1,42ata, performance of the new 1943 model being requested



    To summerize :
    -----------------

    Oleg, if possible, please include the variants of Bf 109 F-4 in it`s 1942, the Bf 109 G-2 in it`s 1943 increased engine ratings, with increased speed and climb.

    I think this is not great deal of work, nothing compared like creating a whole new plane. It`s a fair request, other planes have many-many variants that differ only in engine rating. Why not these two? You would make the fans very happy with little work. I am sure people like Butch2k or others can send you needed data, if you dont have it already.

    There are more 109 F-4 flight results and details at this board :
    http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffe...icID=210.topic

    PS: Please don`t question game data. It`s from recent Il-2compare, not self made flight tests...


    Please take time to answer, we are grateful for your time and for the through consideration of the subject. Thank you again.
    Share this post

  3. #3
    ^ BUMP ^
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  4. #4
    you allready have the extra boost in the G2 and more when using manual prop pitch
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  5. #5
    In real life using manual prop pitch would damage the engine, and at the same RPM manual and auto gave the same performance...

    Regardless, we would need the the historical boosts for these planes for 1942 and 1943. Half a dozen other plane feature the updated variants with higher boosts. Why not these two, it`s minimal work.

    Just count how many planes the LW and Allies can choose from in 1943... for LW, it`s the two identical performance G-6s and the FW 190A-5.. for allies... P-38J, P-47D, Spitfire V (two versions), then now comes again half a dozen Spitfire Mk IX models which are also improved boost versions of the old 1942 Spit Mk IX..etc.. even the P-51B is supposed to be 1943 IIRC, even if it had seen - how much? - maybe 20-30 days of action in the last days of `43... not to mention the Soviet types of 1943.

    A *new* version of the existing Flight Model for already existing 3D models ain`t big request, especially if the Axis side has so few a/c to choose from in 1942-43.

    I see no real reason why can`t these "new aircrafts" shouldn`t be implemented.
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  6. #6
    What i would like to see...is G4, the one with 13mm guns

    V!
    Regards,



    VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST



    http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

    Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
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  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
    What i would like to see...is G4, the one with 13mm guns

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You mean Galland`s special 109F-4 ? Hmmm... 1xMG 151/20, 2xMGFF in wings, 2x13mm MG131s. Sounds good.

    Otherwise G-4 + MG 131s would be = G-6
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  8. #8
    Sounds good indeed

    I am 109`s freak.. i want them all

    V!
    Regards,



    VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST



    http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

    Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
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  9. #9
    What I would like to see is realistic elevator response in 109s from the F on. Right now we have Emil response, if even that much.

    ==================================
    The Blitz Pigs - Not a squad, a Movement!

    Come and spam on our front porch.

    http://www.blitzpigs.com
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  10. #10
    You mean heavy elevator? To me only K4 is heavily affected by that... others are fine. G10 probably has it best.

    V!
    Regards,



    VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST



    http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

    Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
    Share this post

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