This is too awful -Aurora-shooting | Forums

[Wolferz]

Dunno if i agree with that. I play video games nonstop, as does a huge amount of the population, but im still utterly horrified at cruelty and violence in real life. Considering the dyed hair, Batman voice message and other stuff he did im leaning towards there already being something very wrong with his psyche. Perhaps video games were the trigger for the instability, but if that's the case i fail to see how video games are the immediate culprit. I've read some fairly violence heavy first person books, for instance.

I read a facebook thread the other day bringing up if someone having a concealed carry permit would have altered things slightly, which probably is the only effective direct deterrent with the availability of guns being what it is over there.

If there were someone in that theater that was packing heat, it wouldn't have made much difference. Two cans of CS (tear gas) was enough to debilitate any would be responder. Couple that up with the general panic and resulting stampede I think more would have been injured or killed in the fire fight.
This guy meticulously planned his actions and carried them out with surgical precision. Cold and calculated. He knew what to do once he was done too. Give up without taking one to the brain pan. He told the authorities about his booby trapped apartment because he knew what would happen to him if a police officer was added to his list of murder victims. Most wack jobs will commit the murder/s and then suicide by cop or their own hand afterward.

[Mescator]

If there were someone in that theater that was packing heat, it wouldn't have made much difference. Two cans of CS (tear gas) was enough to debilitate any would be responder.

Fair enough. I assumed that was the case, but was assured by a marine that correct training would have allowed a degree of counterfire. I don't have any real degree of expertise with it though, just thought it was a interesting point to think about.

[nvrsummer2]

Hey guys,

This hit me rather deeply as it was a mile and a half from my Brothers house. And had it been a Friday night, very well could have been him.

I was also right down the street when Columbine happened. Although we couldnt see nor hear anything going on over there. Just a steady stream of service vehicles and a swarm of copters overhead. One of our front desk girls was in the library and saw her friend, right across from her, take a shot in the neck and suffocate in her own blood. She was never the same. We had a big 4th of July party and a stadium next door shot off large fireworks unexpectedly. She started shaking and fell to the floor crying. We picked her up and ive never felt a person shaking that bad. She absolutely lost it.

As for Wolferz first response, I think blaming it on a "demon" is absolving him of guilt. If that was the case then let him out of jail a free man because it wasn't his fault. Hes a victim too.

I do believe if criminals with guns knew that decent citizens also very well could be armed, it might work as a deterrent. Sure in this case it might have been hard to draw a weapon and fire back, given the circumstances. But these guys know they are going to be able to walk right in and open fire. They dont expect it to last long, just long enough. But maybe they wouldnt try it if they knew they would have to contend with several people firing back at them. i bet they dont even think thats possible. They want complete control of those peoples lives. Its a pride/ego thing. Just like when they say rape isnt about sex. Maybe this isnt about the act of murder. Its about him hurting people forever. And he can close his eyes and know that he will be remebered forever for what he did. Newspapers, books etc for a long time will feature his name. And his "accomplishments". Its just sad that absolutely innocent people had to fulfill his sick fantasy. I say we bring him out to a field, dig a hole and double tap him. What chance of rehabilitation do we have here? There is no point in a life spent in jail.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I've dealt with a lot of psychiatric patients over the years and have seen many different types; Bi-Polar, Schizophrenic, Anxiety Disorders, Depression patients, Asperger's syndrome. I couldn't even begin to explain the vast range of behavioral differences, even amongst people with the same disorders. Some would fight to keep from being strapped into an ambulance gurney, others that you thought would fight, would behave peacefully as they were lead to the stretcher. I wish I had a dime for every time one of them swung at me or had to be wrestled and strapped down. Same goes for the peaceful ones. I could never put a finger on it, that is, who would fight and who wouldn't. They were all equally unpredictable, even our regular customers.

One thing I have noticed in the past, maybe 10 years or so, is that a whole new crop of unusual disorders has emerged. I can't remember any of them who were so contrived in their behaviors. I have noticed a sharp rise in the callousness of the public in general. I'm out of work right now because a man who has never been in trouble with the law, is a family man and a responsible working man, decided that he wanted to fight rather than be hand-cuffed after being placed under arrest for a minor offense. He now faces criminal charges of resisting arrest and aggrevated assault on a police officer, along with the minor offense charge. He is also going to be sued by the town that employs me, for losses incurred due to my medical treatment and every day that they lose my services at work. This man has no known emotional or psychological issues. That's not to preclude that he just hasn't been diagnosed, but I've seen some unexplainable reasoning and behavior by many different types.

The fact is, I have seen a consistent increase in behaviors that involve callousness, disrespect, general lack of manners, inconsideration for others, more emphasis on the self (i.e., I, Me, Mine) , and this includes minors that think absolutely nothing about arguing with or talking back to a police officer. When I finally meet the parents, I immediately learn why the children are so belligerent. They're an exact reflection of their parents. Hence the long established adage, "The apple does not fall far from the tree". I'm on the front lines every day and see it first hand. I have seen the increasing frequency of society's disregard for others. Something is absolutely, definitely, occurring here and in the end, I think we'll discover that the answer was not so complex after all. Albeit, I fear many will discover this the hard way.

[Wolferz]

It's complicated...
As a free nation we attempt to balance rights of the individual with everything else.
As for Mr Holmes, Demonic possession is not an excuse, it's a reason. He allowed his mental state to degrade to the point of susceptibility and "poof" he becomes just another insane mass murderer. There have been many. There will be many more. Popping a couple of caps in his head will not prevent this from ever happening again.
I think many of us have either lost the capacity to forgive or never had it to begin with. aka Hard Heartedness.
That's why Wern and I and a few others on this forum preach about God's love. Without it, we are no better than animals preying on the weak. Predation.
A strong mind and a soft heart will do more to protect us from the insanity of the world than anything else.
The evil one has many minions that are within easy reach of this domain we humans occupy. They seek to compromise us all, to rob us of something they will never have. The everlasting love of our Father in heaven.
The bible tells of the end times which I believe are fast approaching. The Antichrist has already established his Ten Commandments. Want proof oh resident of Missouri? Do a Google search for the Georgia Guide stones. then be afraid. Be very afraid. We haven't begun to see terror... yet.

[MWolfe1963]

Dunno if i agree with that. I play video games nonstop, as does a huge amount of the population, but im still utterly horrified at cruelty and violence in real life. Considering the dyed hair, Batman voice message and other stuff he did im leaning towards there already being something very wrong with his psyche. Perhaps video games were the trigger for the instability, but if that's the case i fail to see how video games are the immediate culprit. I've read some fairly violence heavy first person books, for instance.

I read a facebook thread the other day bringing up if someone having a concealed carry permit would have altered things slightly, which probably is the only effective direct deterrent with the availability of guns being what it is over there.

I agree it goes beyond video games, but I believe it's part of the problem for a few percent. Certainly deranged people have existed at all time, but we have a culture that is like the perfect storm for this generation of youth, compared to generations before. In my generation we were raised with a strong sense of right and wrong, I grew up at the end of the "good versus bad " error, the Cowboy age...Just compare TV in the 60's -80's, I grew up watching Roy Rogers as a kid, later shows like the Waltons, etc., even prime time TV shows usually taught some good or moral theme. My generation was strongly disciplined, maybe too much, but people watched kids back then. Our culture taught you to respect adults, we played outside, our gore was Cowboy and Indians.. Most of us were working at 16 and out of the house by 19. I know I was taught early, if I didn't earn it, do without.

I think what is different today than in the past that because of culture, disturbed people are more likely to snap than before. If you're deranged, our culture does create the perfect storm, so people snap. Something is wrong, we never had cops, metal detectors, etc., at our schools, now it's part of most schools. We do live in the generation of the violent mindset and our culture, entertainment supports it.

I don't know that concealed carry or someone armed couldn've stopped this guy unless it was a highly trained marksmen. He had too many guns, assualt, shotguns and pistols, plus body armor. The best cops that go against assualt rifles with pistols usually lose. Someone armed may have gotten his attention, course they would've probably died.

No, I don't think the "Devil made me do it" is a valid reason, but no doubt evil exist, we can choose good or evil regardless of our beliefs or lack of.

[Mescator]

As for Mr Holmes, Demonic possession is not an excuse, it's a reason. He allowed his mental state to degrade to the point of susceptibility and "poof" he becomes just another insane mass murderer.

I don't think this is a reason you can gamble with. Even if you grant the existence of the devil, we know unbalanced and disturbed people can exist without his influence. We can observe the brain directly and induce changes ourselves, bringing about this psychosis. Drugs do it as well. Mental illness is well documented occurring from genetic disorders to physical damage to the brain

Saying "Well, the Devil must have done it", even IF we assume his existence is real, exposes us to the very dicey road of misdiagnosing real and in some cases preventable mental illness. It's not a path I'd be willing to tread lightly, even if i did believe.

I agree it goes beyond video games, but I believe it's part of the problem for a few percent. Certainly deranged people have existed at all time, but we have a culture that is like the perfect storm for this generation of youth

I think you hit the correct nail with the second part of this statement and your following assessment of society. It's a trend occurring with Werns post's as well. People have become entitled. Children and adults aren't held accountable and get what they want. It bothers me how weak some peoples moral compass is. I think that is the underlying problem. Perhaps video games are the trigger for some crimes "Oh hey, i stole one of these in GTA last night. Lets nick it, it'll be cool!".

That to me is a indication of poor discipline and a underlying problem, not how video games are responsible for anything. I mean, realistically we could probably ban them and it would stop them being used as a trigger for this sort of ****, but that's a nasty can of worms. A more effective method of preventing this would be removing all guns, but it's a extreme that infringes on your rights via the constitution. I'd rather get the problem, rather than take panadol for the symptoms.

I don't know that concealed carry or someone armed couldn've stopped this guy unless it was a highly trained marksmen. He had too many guns, assualt, shotguns and pistols, plus body armor. The best cops that go against assualt rifles with pistols usually lose. Someone armed may have gotten his attention, course they would've probably died.

Fair point. I thought it was a interesting concept so i brought it up. I've since heard a few points other points that shoot it down a bit, such as what happens if more than one concealed carry was there, who shoots at who?

No, I don't think the "Devil made me do it" is a valid reason, but no doubt evil exist, we can choose good or evil regardless of our beliefs or lack of.

Well put.

[denis4510]

I'm with Wern. Selfishness, self-focus, or whatever you want to call it is a prime reason for many of the problems of today and it goes back to the parents' responsibility. It reflects on people's behaviour in the supermarket, on the road (road rage etc) and practically all aspects of life. Many people have such a high opinion of themselves that they do not care about others - look at their behaviour with mobile phones.

This of course gets back to the basic of respect (or lack thereof) for others.

This is an extract from a post I made years ago in my clan's forum as we older members tend to try to guide the younger members in some areas. We have had some success.

Respectful acts include:- Showing consideration for others; have regard for others; appreciating them; acknowledging them; accepting and recognising them and their ideas and opinions. It also covers things like good manners and an understanding that things may not always go the way YOU want them to go.

Having regard for others is extremely important. That means accepting that other people are different but just as important as you feel you are. Some people may call this tolerance.

I also think that modern society has lost some of the beneficial attributes of the society of many years ago - the extended family. As a child I had an Uncle and Aunt next door, another uncle just up the street, one in the next street and an Uncle and Aunt and countless cousins also close by. I had some Uncles in law, one of whom had a farm close by and I visited him often - learnt to ride bareback on a draft horse - could fit 5 cousins and I on the same horse - long way to the ground though. I have actually plowed with a draft horse. I still live 2 doors away from my parents to look after them and my wife's mother is not far away either.

You also have to have a sense of humour and laugh at your own frailties.

[Wolferz]

Wernher and denis,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Modern society is no longer about family. I E: It takes a village to raise a child. Discipline has fallen by the wayside in favor of all that touchy feely mumbo jumbo.
We are now reaping the fruits of spare the rod spoil the child. They're a bit sour. Let's add more sugar.
Busy modern parents struggling to make ends meet tend to park the kids in front of the idiots lantern and forget about them. Ultimately producing introverted adults who are socially awkward and worse yet, schooled by all the drivel spewed out by commercial television.
There is no easy answer other than eat your sour fruit and move along.
Don't forget to duck and cover the next time you go to a movie. Something I stopped doing long before this current event because there always seemed to be a mother with ignorant children who would park their butts right behind me. The kids had no interest in the film and spent the entire time kicking the back of my seat or putting their feet up on it and depositing their shoe filth onto my shoulders. For those moms, there are drive-ins. Keep your brats in your car or at least teach them some manners when in public. It's a wonder I haven't gone postal more than once. It's a good thing that my parents and extended family taught me better.

[MWolfe1963]

Kid's today aren't taught to be good losers, everyone has to be a winner, so no one feelings get hurt. I almost laugh when I go to a school function, bout every kid gets
an award regardless so no feelings get hurt. Heck, kids can't even play dodge ball here, cept with lil foam balls, got to make sure no one gets a boo boo.. None of this helps
esteem, it just creates entitlement, which doesn't work in the world after school in reality, bosses yell, you often lose, etc...

I don't have a problem with the "it takes a village" concept, but it shouldn't replace good parenting. Today with the economy and parents often absent, good to have as
many adults as possible involved helping kids, but home is where the focus should be.