1. #2481
    I don't see what happened with Conviction as being anything like a collaborative effort.

    The first version was a surprise to players, and immediately became a mess. One could say that they didn't show that much, but if what they showed wasn't representative of the game, then they shouldn't have shown it. Considering what happened next, though, I think it was representative. Hence the need to redo it.

    The second version was still done behind closed doors. I believe that it was modified because of the feedback, but a lot lost was in translation. Ultimately it still suffered due to (IMO) misunderstandings that could have been avoided had there been better communication between the players and the team. I know the team was considering the hardcore sneaky crowd, but playing the game I never felt that style properly represented (in the campaign, specifically). If someone was pulling for us, they were definitely outvoted.
     1 people found this helpful
    Share this post

  2. #2482
    generalbrown02's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    33
    Ultimately it still suffered due to (IMO) misunderstandings that could have been avoided had there been better communication between the players and the team.
    If there needs to be communication between the team nad the players it's a massive concession that the team is too disconnected from the product. In which case your problem isn't collaboration, it's that you need a new team. But, yes, they showed the original assets way too early. They were changing the formula, I don't think that was ever a secret. Conviction was a change of formula too. I wouldn't have recommended changing the formula, but I think given that was the decision they made, they would have been better off seeing that original vision through and waiting until the game was more fleshed out before they started showing things off and having knee-jerk reactions to public opinion. People don't like change, so change has to be handeled carefully.

    I would say Blacklist had more involvement from the community.

    But in any case, when the people making the product stop caring about the product, it tends to suffer. It's pretty logical.
    Share this post

  3. #2483
    generalbrown02's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    33
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    You can keep your negativity and your wrong interpretations for yourself. Just because you had once a bad experience at work with this process doesn't mean you should generalize and doom it forever. You have examples showing that it didn't work in some cases, and there are examples showing that it worked and still is experimented in some studios with some good results.

    "attempting to drop an authoritative hammer as you just did doesn't speak well to your sense of collaboration any way"

    What authoritative hammer ? I'm completely aware of the issues that a collaboration could raise so me saying that devs and creators (in a case of a collaboration) should always find the right balance and keep a strict and total control on their project is not authoritarian, it's just common sense.
    But if that's what you think of me about this topic then you didn't understand a single word of what I wrote and said.
    And don't make ridiculous personal attacks on me because you disagree with my point of view, criticizing my "sense of collaboration" without any proofs shows that you didn't even see how the open letter was built through weeks before we published it.

    Besides considering all the sh*t Ubisoft did to this franchise for now more than a decade, yeah I believe that with my guidance the product will be better. But not only with mine, also with the one of all real fans. And I don't have any problem acknowledging that.
    However I don't operate only under this belief, I am in general convinced that more collaboration is good everywhere, like in politics with citizens having more control and power over politicians than they have now. That's my opinion and you can disagree with it, but don't come and try to do low-grade psychology on my person in a desperate attempt to discredit me.

    I wanted to do this post to clarify some things and put them in order since I hate to see people trying to misinterpret my words to make me look as an idiot or a dishonest person. Maybe it was not your intention by writing this message but I felt it so.

    And I engage a discussion and reply to anyone I want and whenever I want so no need to say that you're not roping me in this discussion and repeat it several times.
    However I stop replying when a discussion begins to spin in circles and this one is starting to do so, therefore I warn that I probably won't reply again because I have better things to do with my time.
    You've now made two posts where you suggest that I should silence myself because you don't like what I am saying:

    You can keep your negativity and your wrong interpretations for yourself.
    We already talked about this on the other thread so we won't restart this discussion
    If I had been speaking to you directly then maybe you'd have a point. The reason I keep pointing out that I am not roping you into the discussion is because you are agressively addressing me as though I am. Which is the most generous perspective, a less generous perspective would suppose that you believe that you hold a right on this forum to decide who may speak regardless of your own involvement in a discussion. You may in fact engage, or not engage, how you see fit, but it's weak to tell a person that you have heard enough of them in a public forum. I don't care how non-constructive or "negative" you see me in terms of your agenda. The authoritarian hammer I was referencing was the belief that you can tell other members of this board to stop speaking. It wasn't in reference to your vision of a community QC group, it was simply your statements to me. Feel free to disengage. I've lost respect for your effort, here's a tip - go apply for a job with Ubisoft if you want to work on the game, and join the team in earnest.
    Share this post

  4. #2484
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,730
    Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
    You've now made two posts where you suggest that I should silence myself because you don't like what I am saying:

    You can keep your negativity and your wrong interpretations for yourself.

    We already talked about this on the other thread so we won't restart this discussion


    If I had been speaking to you directly then maybe you'd have a point. The reason I keep pointing out that I am not roping you into the discussion is because you are agressively addressing me as though I am. Which is the most generous perspective, a less generous perspective would suppose that you believe that you hold a right on this forum to decide who may speak regardless of your own involvement in a discussion. You may in fact engage, or not engage, how you see fit, but it's weak to tell a person that you have heard enough of them in a public forum. I don't care how non-constructive or "negative" you see me in terms of your agenda. The authoritarian hammer I was referencing was the belief that you can tell other members of this board to stop speaking. It wasn't in reference to your vision of a community QC group, it was simply your statements to me. Feel free to disengage. I've lost respect for your effort, here's a tip - go apply for a job with Ubisoft if you want to work on the game, and join the team in earnest.
    Come on, don't start acting like a victim. We're not on Twitter here...
    As I was saying in my previous post, you're having wrong interpretations of what I wrote. I never suggested anyone to silence themselves and will never do. The best way to reply effectively to someone with whom we disagree is to do it with arguments, which I always did and will continue to do. I ain't scared of debates.
    And by the way I wouldn't take some of my precious time to write all these long posts to you if I didn't want you to reply, that makes no sense.

    But if I was trying to act viciously and like a victim as you do, I would say that you repeating that you were not addressing to me several times is your implied way of telling me to shut up. See how this is stupid and not making the discussion move forward at all ? Yeah, you're just making the same thing to me right now.

    Telling you to "keep your negativity and your wrong interpretations for yourself" is a way to make you understand that bringing negative vibes around is not making the discussion progress the right way. Only thing it shows is that deep down you just want for this collaboration to not happen. And you would have the right to want that.
    As for the other sentence saying that there's no need to restart this discussion, that's because I felt that your message was pointed at me and you and I know that we've already discussed this topic some time ago and had a complete and pleasant discussion around it. But even if you claim that it wasn't, I still have the freedom to reply just like you do. So I don't disengage in anything.

    So now stop trying to manipulate my words with the aim of giving you the good role and making me look bad, that doesn't work and only you believe it.
    Oh and I'm the one who is agressive ? Really ? Who is making personal attacks and trying to discredit me by twisting my words ? What a joke...
    But anyway I'm not surprised, it's always the same thing on the internet. People starting to make personal attacks when they run out of arguments is a classic.

    Because yeah I've seen your previous post a few hours ago about you comparing me to a dictator and so on. I was planning to reply it later but it seems that it's gone. If you deleted it yourself then you did good because that post was really weak. But if it has been deleted by a moderator then don't come here after that and talk about respect.

    And so that you know, I don't care about your lost of respect for my effort since I've already seen how disrespectful and dishonest is your attitude towards me.

    PS: Oh I wish I had enough talent to work in a videogame studio but don't worry, I know where my place is. For now
    Share this post

  5. #2485
    generalbrown02's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    33
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    Come on, don't start acting like a victim. We're not on Twitter here...
    Oh brother. Nobody is claiming to be a victim. I did pull my previous post, it was more vindictive than wish I had been. But there is no "claim" in saying that I wasn't speaking directly to you with my initial comment. I was participating on a forum with the expectation that there are many readers. When I'm referring to a specific person I try to address them.

    Telling you to "keep your negativity and your wrong interpretations for yourself" is a way to make you understand that bringing negative vibes around is not making the discussion progress the right way.
    The only way my "vibes" can be seen as negative is if agreeing with you is the only appropriate position...

    Outside of that, I would say the respect has been lost. So conversation isn't worthwhile.
    Share this post

  6. #2486
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,730
    Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
    Oh brother. Nobody is claiming to be a victim. I did pull my previous post, it was more vindictive than wish I had been. But there is no "claim" in saying that I wasn't speaking directly to you with my initial comment. I was participating on a forum with the expectation that there are many readers. When I'm referring to a specific person I try to address them.
    You're not claiming to be a victim, you're acting like one.
    And I gave you my answer as one of many readers but you took it the wrong way.


    Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
    The only way my "vibes" can be seen as negative is if agreeing with you is the only appropriate position...

    Here we go again with your personal attacks... You definitely don't understand what I write, huh ?
    I respect and always respected anyone who has a contrary opinion and good arguments to defend it, but I always hate to lose my time with people who don't have any or end up twisting up my words and making personal attacks. Because these people are nothing else than negative, and you are in this second category right now while last time we spoke you were in the first one.
    Hope you get it now...


    Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
    Outside of that, I would say the respect has been lost. So conversation isn't worthwhile.
    The respect hasn't been lost, you killed it yourself without realizing it. But you're right, conversation isn't worthwhile. We both have better things to do with our time. Goodbye.
    Share this post

  7. #2487
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,730
    I never knew that Chaos Theory was supposed to have a jungle bonus level on PS2
    (shoutout to aj_thenoob on reddit for talking about it)
    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/QzNP9E































    Share this post