No, it's not. For a cessna, it's maybe 4 or 5 mins but for a faster aircraft. You don't have that much time.Originally posted by rssmps:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Finkeren:
The real issue is: Isn't it a little over the top to make half of DC a no-flight zone?
And BTW why would anyone attack the White House when everyone knows that George W. is in Europe?
As for Bush, in case you missed it, he was back in the states, not in Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Missed that, my bad.
My oppinion still stands though. This No-flying zone is ridiculous, if someone wanted to bomb the White House they'd just do it.
A few years ago (pre 9/11) some lunatic LANDED a Cessna on the White House lawn. Not so sure that could happen today, but it would be nothing to turn a jet on final at DCA into a federal building...its only a matter of seconds until impact.
And, no, to be VFR you only need 3 miles visibility, 500 below, 1000 above, 2000 horizontal in controlled airspace to be VFR...no "second visual source" needed.
Haze is real bad in the DC area...visibility routinely gets bad in the warmer months. As long as planes are allowed w/in 50 nm of DC, this kinda thing will continue to happen.
I live in Silver Spring which is a few miles north of DC. Several days after 9/11, I saw first hand the damage done to the Pentagon. I have relatives, my wife being one, who work in D.C. in various govt. buildings. You don't take risks around here. Period. Even a small plane can carry a big surprise.![]()
I do agree that it's hard to figure out how these guys got so screwed up. I have been in a Cessna in this area and on a clear day, which this was, there are indeed landmarks-a-poppin. And where was his radio? They tried to reach him repeatedly and got no response, hence the two Blackhawks and 2 F-16's welcoming committee. When you are flying into or around a major major metro area it seems you want your ears turned to the "on" position??
No second source required?... for all I know, it may have never been required. I grew up in an environment that if the FAA or pilot's association suggested it, you just about treated it as law. Maybe it was foolish to do so, but I never was brought down because I ran out of gas, ran off course, got into weather I shouldn't have been in or any of the other common problems that seem to plague private pilots to this day.
Umm... getting lost is REALLY easy from my experience (in Michigan you need to differentiate between the "potato field down yonder" and the "corn field two miles east from I-96" if you want to navigate using landmarks). I'll assume the student was behind the controls. However, he was flying with a flight instructor who is supposed to be a proficient aviator. I don't think it's an excuse, but from what I heard, the aircraft in question did not have an IFR flight plan filed, which is totally absurd if you're flying XC.
Now here's another question. Why the f*ck didn't the ATC warn the pilot(s) in question that they were approaching restricted airspace? After all they first picked up the Cessna when it was 20-odd miles away from the White House. A simple call to change course would have resolved the issue without scrambling fighters.
Luckyboy, I think you can chalk this up to nothing more than absolute pure unadulterated STUPIDITY. They were flying with out-dated sectionals, were not listening to ATC, and apparently not avigating at all. If they were on a cross country from New England, why didn't they simply avoid the congestion around D.C.? That's what most pilots around here do when flying near D/FW or Houston if they don't need to land at one of the airports there.
I sincerely hope the FAA pulls ALL this instructor's certifications. It is the responsiblility of the instructor to pay attention to what his student is doing at all times. I really hope the other students this man has trained got better instruction than what his current student has apparently gotten.
I'm a RL pilot as well, and the STUPIDITY (thanks for the perfect word vocatx) exhibited by that instructor AND his student is beyond deserving of a Darwin award.
This will become famous as some of the stupidest things ever done, up there with:
- The monks who actually tried Daedalus' experiment and plummetted to their deaths.
-The man who attached several weather balloons to his lawn chair and floated up a few thousand feet while enjoying a beer.
-Shooting through the propeller arc without interrupter gear.
and last, but not least, this act committed by a pair of fellow idiots truly is on par with this group:
-A group of Norwegian theives cleverly use dynamite to open a safe... that was filled with dynamite.
Yep, I tell you what, yes, I know you only need a few hours... geeze, I've forgotten the reg it's been so long... for all I remember it was an hour and a half to four hours of navigational training to get your private VFR ticket... which, unfortunately for most to hear, is dangerously too little time.
I was trained a total of 16 hours to start in navigation and 36 hours more of navigational training when I went for my IFR ticket even though it was not required I guess. Again, I did it because it was "suggested" and back then, that's all they had to do and you'd do it... or at least I did!
Through he whole thing, the basic theme ended up going something like...
You try to confirm by three different navigational means what your position is and they should all aggree. If you get to a point where you can't even get two of them to be the same point on the map, you are long and officially lost! At that point, you get on the radio, announce that you ARE lost and take your beatings when you land.
Then, sometime in the early 1980's they went to a more punative sytle of managing private pilots due to what was perceived as some abuse of the honor system. It used to be that if you got lost, you were sat down and scolded and you sent them some documentation showing that you took some more formal navigational training and all would be forgiven. Not anymore man! They slam pilots at every turn these days.
I can't tell you whether the old philosophy for correcting bad piloting was better than the current system. All I'm saying is that especially with cheap avionics being so readily available in such reliable forms that are so easy to use and so many varied systems, you should never, and I mean never have any reason to even doubt where you are and not be able to confirm your position 3 or more ways. For God's sake, you can even get color radar for less than $2,00.00 in a private plane that back in 1970, commercial pilots would kill to have at any price!
The modern guy in me says...
Hey man, just come on down to my part of the world for a few days and I'll show you.
The good old fashioned pilot in me won't let that happen because I know I'm not rated to instruct on the subject. Navigation courses are available. Are they required?... who cares? They are beneficial, so if you haven't done it, you are shooting cr@ps with your and the publics safety and you know it!
What you do about it is up to you!