1. #21
    DKoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Col.BBQ:
    Sorry, got the wrong vibe from your last post regarding BnZ as honorable as vulching. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not a prob.

    It probably sounded like I don't regard BnZ high or that I dislike it for some reason.

    On the contrary!

    And it's a good thing that you mentioned it...

    This is all very close to all this "honor" stuff; many people conjure in that thing.

    Yet they see nothing wrong -regarding this, honor thing- when they BnZ their prey, which cannot really fight back.

    But somehow their "honor is in question" lamp turns on when you mention vulching.

    That's a school example of double standards.

    I don't have a problem with either;
    -being destroyed thru vulch, BnZ
    -destroy others thru vulch, BnZ

    Honor has little to do with that, because in a "game of war" honor plays... some role at the very bottom of the "important things in war" list.
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  2. #22
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    I used to remember some fantastic ones with bomber escorts at high altitude and any of the VFC COOP scenarios were good fun one way or another. Everyone was jovial and there was a fair bit of effort to being team players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>VFC was my best online DF server experience to date.
    Excellent server with a lot of good folks, a fair number of them frequented UBi forums back then, so it was nice to see them online.
    *
    About vulching... I've expressed my opinion. I don't care really - I know I would be able to deal with vulchers this or that way, there is always a way. Banning that was instituted simply because of newbie players who seem to have issues with switching bases, or taking some extra nimble fighters like I-153 and thus avoid being destroyed by BnZ or taking off in great numbers so they cannot all get hit in one pass, taking a bomber and fire from turret at E/A or whatever else works there...

    It's a challenge really.

    As much as is evading BnZ pass while you're flying at altitude.

    Some of folks may disagree with me, but BnZ is simply "honorable" as a pass on fighter that takes off. It's not exactly the same thing, vulcher has greater chances to destroy his victim, but "honor" is same... that is of course, if someone really cares for "honor" anyway.
    Great chances that BnZer/vulcher will destroy him & 0% chances for BnZer/vulcher to get killed. Literally.
    And if he's got a buddy with him victim can not fight them at all, it must constantly run until destroyed or until it receives some help from its buddies.

    There is really much "honor" in that .

    Sorry for a little irony... obviously I disagree with some of you guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I see what you mean but I'm not sure if I agree. I think best to leave it at that. I definitely understand what you're getting at.

    I would say that its more than 0% chance for the BNZer to get killed. Nailed a guy trying to do a BNZ on me today. He had a Mustang, I had a N1K2J, he misjudged the angle (I think there may have been a slight stall involved) and I got him as he sailed past (I put on a half roll heavy skid to make him miss). But I do see what you're saying...properly executed its a much less vulnerable position. Thats the idea right?

    I still won't play on these servers that ban BNZing. I'm sure I'd be banned one way or another.
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  3. #23
    I will respond to your points, Dkoor, but since you`ve broke my previous words into separate paragraghs answering each one specifically, I will need time to do the same in response to you and at the moment i have more important stuff at work to do.

    And I don`t want to give a short answer that you`ll no doubt attempt to take apart.

    I`ll be back.
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  4. #24
    DKoor you are of course right rules are 'unrealistic' but then the whole online flying around shooty people buisness is fairly unrealistic.

    Our servers are probably more rule heavy than many and I think that is due to the play style we are trying to promote. (Shock horror yes servers do try to manipulate how you fly.) People refer to df servers but infact there is a whole spectrum of df servers some are just that dgfight servers others like ours try to be objective based with ground targets and all that jazz. Our rules on vulching etc encourage action away from bases and to the objective areas.
    Is that realistic?
    No but then neither are the constraints of the game.
    Not everyone has a new super-dooper computer, ground objects do hit FPS, so AAA at aifields is a double edged sword.
    In a pure df map you can stick a couple of bases anywhere, big grey rectangles are fine. However if you are making a quality objective based (dare I say realistic) map your options are more limited. Enemy bases will be closer than in real life, you may not be a sensible place to put an alternative airbase etc.

    You should set up a 'no-rules' server it would be interesting, give people the choice and all that. However I suspect you wont end up with the hyper-realistic WW2 airware simulation you seek.
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  5. #25
    csThor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Ruling out B&Z is like setting up a car racing sim server and trying to enforce a 60 mp/h speed limit. Just doesn't make any sense in the context of the game.
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  6. #26
    BTW I was referring to 'rules' in general I too can't get my head around the No BnZ rule. I wouldn't fly there but it's their server so their buisness I suppose.
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  7. #27
    WOLFMondo's Avatar Senior Member
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    IL2 is an online game, online games have smacktards. As long as you have smacktards who show other people they are playing with no respect rules like shoulder shooting will have to be around.

    Personally I like vulching. Its a skill to vulch and survive and its immensly satisfying to use a real tactic but shoulder shooting and kill stealing, in the worse context i.e. point *****s trying to get more points no matter how they get them is bad and shouldn't be condoned.
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  8. #28
    DKoor's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    I would say that its more than 0% chance for the BNZer to get killed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is debatable, but I admit it is true that it is somewhat greater than 0%.
    I was just making a point there with that 0%.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nailed a guy trying to do a BNZ on me today. He had a Mustang, I had a N1K2J, he misjudged the angle (I think there may have been a slight stall involved) and I got him as he sailed past (I put on a half roll heavy skid to make him miss). But I do see what you're saying...properly executed its a much less vulnerable position. Thats the idea right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, that's true. A good BnZer will always have much more energy than his victim.
    That usually means very shallow final approach on target @ extreme speed (climb or dive) so BnZer effectively covers all victim's moves that include any kind of climb or flat horizontal turn.
    BnZer knows that if he allows his victim to climb up without being punished, he is slowly losing his initial advantage...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I still won't play on these servers that ban BNZing. I'm sure I'd be banned one way or another. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Ice czech this out; http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/134...441043556#1441043556

    We are talking about server that is meant to have fun... totally non-historical planesets and everything that comes with it.

    So people are having fun then few individuals join and spoil the party for the rest.
    Especially so when fair number of people playing there are newcomers (I know because I've been able to shot down two bandits in 1 vs 2 fight, we all flew Spitfires, they even had slight initial alt advantage).

    I can understand the server admin for doing what he did.
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  9. #29
    A couple points reflecting my own personal outlook on relevant discussions:

    1. You can post in the brief regarding persistent "vulching", and kill-stealing etc,..will be dealt with as they detract from team play, but someone's got to monitor and police such things as well which is difficult at best and nigh impossible at worst.

    2. I personally like to encourage pilots to get on TS. Even if they just listen. It's incredibly difficult to type "109, break!") while maintaining proper SA and trying to render aid to your friendly.

    3. The only way to really deal with persistent vulchers is beef up the base AAA and have almost everyone spend a few minutes doing CAP before heading out to slaughter. IMO, a combination of 4-5 ea. 22/23mm emplacements combined with 3-5 87/88mm emplacements is adequate to defend most all bases when combined with even modest CAP. I very much do NOT like to see rules against vulching.

    4. Look closely at server settings. Relaxed settings have a much higher chance to bring relaxed pilots that aren't concerned with mission objectives or teamwork. I'm not "laying a blanket" here nor saying there isn't a place where there can be relaxed settings and great teamwork. I AM saying it's just less likely.
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  10. #30
    WOLFMondo's Avatar Senior Member
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    40mm bofors are lethal AA and have almost 0 tracer fire. High ROF and a single hit is enough to down most aircraft.
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