1. #1
    AKA_TAGERT's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,799
    Hey Guys!

    What with the pending "what if" 46 addon I think it is time we take a closer look at the YP80. In that the YP80 will be the only jet in the US inventory that will be able to go toe to toe with the Whiz Bang Looney Luftie Napkin Drawing planes.

    With that said, what I am looking for is some performance data to test and compare to. I would also like to know if anyone here has any idea where Oleg gets the impression that the P80 wings should break off as they do. In that I have yet to find one case/report of wing failure.

    With regards to that issue I ask Gibbage what he knew about the wing falling off in that I know he did a lot of research on this plane before modeling it. Here is what Gibbage had to say on this mater.

    Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    Consider this. In 2 separate instances, 2 P-80's "bounced" off the ground during a strafing run and flew home. There bellies caved in and full of dirt and grass. After you consider THAT, remember that all P-80's had the wing tip tanks. It was perm, but droppable in case of a fire. Also consider the fact that the manual states no where that there are ANY restrictions of speed or maneuver with those wing tip tanks installed or full. That should give you an idea for how strong the P-80's wings are.
    WOW! bounced off the ground during a strafing run and made it back home? Not one case but two? Amazing!

    Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    Reading the manual, the only warning I can read is "aileron rolls are not recommended with full drop tanks. Aileron rolls, with full drop tanks, at rates faster then 45 degrees per second are prohibited." but I think this applies for almost any drop tank. There is a dive chart. Max at SL is 580MPH and at 20,000 430MPH IAS.
    Agreed 100% WRT restrictions apply for any plane with drop tanks

    Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    One thing to remember is that a P-80 set a world speed record of 623 MPH in level flight. Clearly the max indicated speed does NOT apply too the point the wings brake off. I cant find any warning about excessive speed causing stress or damage.
    Nor can I!

    I also ask Gibbage about his original P80 3D model. In that initially Gibbage 3D modle was of the P80 not the YP80, and the P80 had dive breaks. Here is what Gibbage had to say about that

    Gibbage on the P80 3D art work:
    The P-80 was modeled WITH wing tip drop tanks AND dive brakes. Its all there, ready for Oleg. He took it off and made it a YP-80. If you zoom into the belly of the IL2 P-80, you can still see the dive brakes.
    Dive breaks would give the P80 a big advantage over the other 46 jets! So, since Oleg already has the P80 3D model with dive breaks, I don't think it would be too much to ask Oleg to give us a true P80 instead of a watered down YP80. I mean if Oleg can make planes fly that never made it off the napkin they were scribbled on, is it too much to ask him to gives us something that actually did fly.. and something he all ready has the 3D art for. I think not!

    But I digress

    My real question goes out to all you data experts..

    1) Does anyone have any real life performance data on the P80?
    2) Does anyone have any real life data that would indicate the P80 was prone to wings falling off?

    Thanks in advance!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

    ************************************************** **
    IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
    ************************************************** **
    Share this post

  2. #2
    AKA_TAGERT's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,799
    Hey Guys!

    What with the pending "what if" 46 addon I think it is time we take a closer look at the YP80. In that the YP80 will be the only jet in the US inventory that will be able to go toe to toe with the Whiz Bang Looney Luftie Napkin Drawing planes.

    With that said, what I am looking for is some performance data to test and compare to. I would also like to know if anyone here has any idea where Oleg gets the impression that the P80 wings should break off as they do. In that I have yet to find one case/report of wing failure.

    With regards to that issue I ask Gibbage what he knew about the wing falling off in that I know he did a lot of research on this plane before modeling it. Here is what Gibbage had to say on this mater.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    Consider this. In 2 separate instances, 2 P-80's "bounced" off the ground during a strafing run and flew home. There bellies caved in and full of dirt and grass. After you consider THAT, remember that all P-80's had the wing tip tanks. It was perm, but droppable in case of a fire. Also consider the fact that the manual states no where that there are ANY restrictions of speed or maneuver with those wing tip tanks installed or full. That should give you an idea for how strong the P-80's wings are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    WOW! bounced off the ground during a strafing run and made it back home? Not one case but two? Amazing!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    Reading the manual, the only warning I can read is "aileron rolls are not recommended with full drop tanks. Aileron rolls, with full drop tanks, at rates faster then 45 degrees per second are prohibited." but I think this applies for almost any drop tank. There is a dive chart. Max at SL is 580MPH and at 20,000 430MPH IAS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Agreed 100% WRT restrictions apply for any plane with drop tanks

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gibbage on the P80 wing breakage:
    One thing to remember is that a P-80 set a world speed record of 623 MPH in level flight. Clearly the max indicated speed does NOT apply too the point the wings brake off. I cant find any warning about excessive speed causing stress or damage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Nor can I!

    I also ask Gibbage about his original P80 3D model. In that initially Gibbage 3D modle was of the P80 not the YP80, and the P80 had dive breaks. Here is what Gibbage had to say about that

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gibbage on the P80 3D art work:
    The P-80 was modeled WITH wing tip drop tanks AND dive brakes. Its all there, ready for Oleg. He took it off and made it a YP-80. If you zoom into the belly of the IL2 P-80, you can still see the dive brakes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Dive breaks would give the P80 a big advantage over the other 46 jets! So, since Oleg already has the P80 3D model with dive breaks, I don't think it would be too much to ask Oleg to give us a true P80 instead of a watered down YP80. I mean if Oleg can make planes fly that never made it off the napkin they were scribbled on, is it too much to ask him to gives us something that actually did fly.. and something he all ready has the 3D art for. I think not!

    But I digress

    My real question goes out to all you data experts..

    1) Does anyone have any real life performance data on the P80?
    2) Does anyone have any real life data that would indicate the P80 was prone to wings falling off?

    Thanks in advance!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

    ************************************************** **
    IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
    ************************************************** **
    Share this post

  3. #3
    berg417448's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,259
    I've had the wings come off of the P-51 on occasion but I've never experience that with the YP-80. What were the circumstances when you experienced it?
    Share this post

  4. #4
    AKA_TAGERT's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,799
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
    I've had the wings come off of the P-51 on occasion but I've never experience that with the YP-80. What were the circumstances when you experienced it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Same circumstances as the P51, only, your going a tad bit faster.

    I have a test in mind to measure the g force at the point the wings come off, but g does not tell the whole story. But it would be very telling to compare that g point to other planes in the game that never shed a wing, what some refer to a bias!

    What I would really like to see is where did Oleg ever get the impression that the wings come off at all.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

    ************************************************** **
    IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
    ************************************************** **
    Share this post

  5. #5
    heywooood's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    4,902
    Russian/Chinese gun camera film no doubt...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">



    A few of The Few



    Share this post

  6. #6
    AKA_TAGERT's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,799
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
    Russian/Chinese gun camera film no doubt... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Doubt it<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

    ************************************************** **
    IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
    ************************************************** **
    Share this post

  7. #7
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    13,650
    The only time I yanked the wings off the YP-80 was in a very high speed dive followed by full elevator pull out. I must have exceeded the G tolerances for the aircraft....you'd think anyways.

    It'd be nice, at the very least, to give us a P-80A just as a bonus. It'd be very little work on their part...maybe re-add the fuel tanks (it was there originally in some AEP beta screen shots). Might be something worth asking for.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


    Find my missions at Flying Legends and Mission4Today.com.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    AKA_TAGERT's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,799
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    The only time I yanked the wings off the YP-80 was in a very high speed dive followed by full elevator pull out. I must have exceeded the G tolerances for the aircraft....you'd think anyways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have done it in level flight at less than max speed.

    But.. what would be REAL INTERESTING is to measure the g force at the point of breakage relitive to other jets in the game.. Ill make a little bet.. Ill bet none of the new Wiz Bang Napkin Stuff or the Russian stuff sheeds a wing at the same or lower g force. Ill bet it takes many more g's to get the same effect in those planes. At this point, just a bet.. but something I will be testing as soon as the addon comes out.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    It'd be nice, at the very least, to give us a P-80A just as a bonus. It'd be very little work on their part... maybe re-add the fuel tanks (it was there originally in some AEP beta screen shots). Might be something worth asking for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

    ************************************************** **
    IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
    ************************************************** **
    Share this post

  9. #9
    Badsight-'s Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,754
    ive broken wings off YP-80's plenty of times in high speed turns

    you have to force it , but it happens
    Share this post

  10. #10
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have a test in mind to measure the g force at the point the wings come off, but g does not tell the whole story. But it would be very telling to compare that g point to other planes in the game that never shed a wing, what some refer to a bias! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's the same for all planes. Use devicelink software to check.

    15G according to Oleg, and ~14G according to devicelink. Speed doesn't affect it.

    One might not think they're doing a lot of G in this game, but that's only because the blackout effect is so slow paced and lenient. In some planes you can easily do 25-30G for short periods.
    Share this post