1. #1
    waffen-79's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    1,657
    Hi guys

    I'm wondering a couple of things and I need your help figuring them out. I joined this fine community in May'05.

    If any of you have comments about any of the points below please reply.

    I wasn't present in the discussions (development/release) of the Forgotten Battles and Aces Expansion Pack.

    Also I don't follow often the ORR Forum.

    With the premise that Heavy/Long Range Bombers(3 or more engines) could not be in the game due to lack of cockpits or game engine limitations...

    1. Who decides what plane is going to be included in the next patch/addon?

    2. What methods are used to determine it?

    3. Gibbage said Luftwaffe fanboys (lwfb) whinned about the YP-80, how loud and heavy was it?

    4. Did reds whine the same when the Me-262,Me-163,He-162,Go-229 were released? as they're today with the Do-335, K-4 C3

    5. Why do you think Oleg included the exotic luftwaffe planes over, for instance the Meteor?

    6. What other exotic Allied (esp British and American) planes SHOULD be included.

    7. Why on warclouds almost everybody(allied) fly the neu Spit IX 25lbs, Tempest, Mosquito? is it bc they're new? [granted a lot of lwfb fly the K-4 c3 but not many... and flying the JU-88 isn't exactly an advantage]

    8. If Jets were Included on the planesets of servers you think everybody would be flying the jets?

    9. What is exactly an Historical Online Mission and what elements are mandatory? (IMO I don't think anyone could gather all the elements or have complete control of the mission)

    10. Are we to expect more new planes or just diff variantes of the existing ones?

    11. Any other Epic whine worth mentioning? (any side)

    12. Any chance getting new cokpit for the P-47 and Me-163?

    13. Why they keep changing the FM of the P-51 series?

    14. Will they correct the Fw-190A series boost?

    15. IYO will the exotic LW planes wiil ever see the light Online? why?

    And last I will share with you my Idea of the perfect FB+AEP+PF Server

    Featuring:

    2 sides: Axis(blue) and Allies(red)
    Constant Plane Set
    Full Real, No Icons, Unlimited Lives, Everything goes except TK and KS
    Non Heavy Scripted Missions
    Bases with AAA MG and LIGHT Flak
    Static Ships
    All maps with large mases of water i.e. Islands or big lakes (no all-land maps)

    PlaneSet

    with common sence including the most succesful '44 & '45 (i.e: La-7, Yak-3P, P-51,47,38,109G-K,190A-D,Ta-152,Tempest PTO birds) planes PLUS:

    Remaining SpitFires
    MOSQUITO (a must)
    Bf-110
    BeauFighter
    A-20
    B-25
    He-111
    He-162
    Ju-88
    YP-80
    Me-262
    Do-335
    Go-229

    I know that the bigger the plane set the more of lag but that would be a killer server.

    Regards, waffen out
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  2. #2
    waffen-79's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,657
    Hi guys

    I'm wondering a couple of things and I need your help figuring them out. I joined this fine community in May'05.

    If any of you have comments about any of the points below please reply.

    I wasn't present in the discussions (development/release) of the Forgotten Battles and Aces Expansion Pack.

    Also I don't follow often the ORR Forum.

    With the premise that Heavy/Long Range Bombers(3 or more engines) could not be in the game due to lack of cockpits or game engine limitations...

    1. Who decides what plane is going to be included in the next patch/addon?

    2. What methods are used to determine it?

    3. Gibbage said Luftwaffe fanboys (lwfb) whinned about the YP-80, how loud and heavy was it?

    4. Did reds whine the same when the Me-262,Me-163,He-162,Go-229 were released? as they're today with the Do-335, K-4 C3

    5. Why do you think Oleg included the exotic luftwaffe planes over, for instance the Meteor?

    6. What other exotic Allied (esp British and American) planes SHOULD be included.

    7. Why on warclouds almost everybody(allied) fly the neu Spit IX 25lbs, Tempest, Mosquito? is it bc they're new? [granted a lot of lwfb fly the K-4 c3 but not many... and flying the JU-88 isn't exactly an advantage]

    8. If Jets were Included on the planesets of servers you think everybody would be flying the jets?

    9. What is exactly an Historical Online Mission and what elements are mandatory? (IMO I don't think anyone could gather all the elements or have complete control of the mission)

    10. Are we to expect more new planes or just diff variantes of the existing ones?

    11. Any other Epic whine worth mentioning? (any side)

    12. Any chance getting new cokpit for the P-47 and Me-163?

    13. Why they keep changing the FM of the P-51 series?

    14. Will they correct the Fw-190A series boost?

    15. IYO will the exotic LW planes wiil ever see the light Online? why?

    And last I will share with you my Idea of the perfect FB+AEP+PF Server

    Featuring:

    2 sides: Axis(blue) and Allies(red)
    Constant Plane Set
    Full Real, No Icons, Unlimited Lives, Everything goes except TK and KS
    Non Heavy Scripted Missions
    Bases with AAA MG and LIGHT Flak
    Static Ships
    All maps with large mases of water i.e. Islands or big lakes (no all-land maps)

    PlaneSet

    with common sence including the most succesful '44 & '45 (i.e: La-7, Yak-3P, P-51,47,38,109G-K,190A-D,Ta-152,Tempest PTO birds) planes PLUS:

    Remaining SpitFires
    MOSQUITO (a must)
    Bf-110
    BeauFighter
    A-20
    B-25
    He-111
    He-162
    Ju-88
    YP-80
    Me-262
    Do-335
    Go-229

    I know that the bigger the plane set the more of lag but that would be a killer server.

    Regards, waffen out
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  3. #3
    Ah at last someone who feels the same as me, I feel that the late War planes, jets and oddities get an unfair reputation on this forum. IMHO they only enhance and add to the flavour and variety of this game. I will happily fly any plane on the plane set and if someone is fly something quicker than me then so be it, after all was it not like that in real life?

    That plane list you listed looks amazing, if I ever get my broadband back I will host a few maps with it
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  4. #4
    Brain32's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mar 2004
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    2,209
    =S= Let's go:
    1. Don't really know but I'm strongly convinced Oleg does that based on the model quality.
    2. See 1. model quality and accuracy
    3. Do not remember that...
    4. Do not remember that...
    5. They were made by 3rd party modellers, Meteor etc. were not.
    6. Don't know much about that topic...I think no more exoctic(synonim for banned)should be included in the game.
    7. Because they are new and nice to fly especially the new Spit, Blue don't fly new K4 much because it's nothing special(I would call it flying frustration, grave, The Refly machine, Me109O where O is Overheat, etc.)
    8. I seriously believe they wouldn't(I would personally use it for groundpounding exclusively).
    9. historical planestets, on apropriate map describing a historical event
    10. Do not know, it's up to the O. Maddox and his team.
    11. Bah, is it important?
    12. I believe not.
    13. EDIT: Because it's not making aces...
    14. You mean A4? Maybe.
    15. Maybe Me262, why? Because people think they are uber, they don't want to see a Luft plane having so much speed(BTW Red are IMHO a bit opssesed with speed)
    All my answers are IMO.
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  5. #5
    Oleg has implemented every single new plane that met his quality standards. There's no big plan. It's just down to the 3rd party modellers. If you can't find your long range bombers is beacuse no one has made them.

    He has also mentioned in the past that his programmers implement first the planes they like the most. That's why we already have the Pfeil but we are still waiting for the Fokker XXI (already finished).

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  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
    3. Gibbage said Luftwaffe fanboys (lwfb) whinned about the YP-80, how loud and heavy was it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Gibbage1 himself started the YP80 campaign when the Me262 was sure to be in FB.Given the fact that two of those flew non-combat sorties in Italy was not enough of an obstacle for red fanboys to whine for a plane that was,from the start,meant to counter the Me262.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">4. Did reds whine the same when the Me-262,Me-163,He-162,Go-229 were released? as they're today with the Do-335, K-4 C3 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Me262 topic has always been interesting.Luftwaffles were eager to have it cuz in IL2 LW was just a target starting from `43 having the top plane of Me109G6/Late.Been there,got owned many times.
    When FB was in the works there was a good hope of including Me262 in FB.
    Red whiners immediately started measuring its performance.General consensus was that Me262 will run out of fuel until it reaches combat area.Man you should see how ugly it got when the Me262 had anything but low fuel.
    At first whines about how unbeatable and uber it was and how cowardly the B&Z tactics were.For the first weeks after FB release latewar servers blossomed with Me262 owning reds so much it was getting silly.
    By popular request someone began banning them from servers and that`s how it has been ever since.

    He162
    After few days in online servers totally banned.I`ve never ever flown an online sortie in it.

    Me163
    Too good.Banned.

    Gotha229
    Flown few server days hen immediately banned.Followed by excessive whines of huge loss of resources due to including a plane that was never meant to be flown.

    K4`45 and Do335 whines can be described as medium currently.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">5. Why do you think Oleg included the exotic luftwaffe planes over, for instance the Meteor? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    -they were completed early
    -they were easy to implement
    -no one would whine about their real life performance


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">7. Why on warclouds almost everybody(allied) fly the neu Spit IX 25lbs, Tempest, Mosquito? is it bc they're new? [granted a lot of lwfb fly the K-4 c3 but not many... and flying the JU-88 isn't exactly an advantage] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    New Spit is the ultimate answer to late LW planes.Ownz them everywhere,everytime.If you can`t do in a P51D,you select a Spit and it`s all good.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">8. If Jets were Included on the planesets of servers you think everybody would be flying the jets? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In the beginning when they were still available servers became literally infested with them.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">9. What is exactly an Historical Online Mission and what elements are mandatory? (IMO I don't think anyone could gather all the elements or have complete control of the mission) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Too hard bcuz of too many factors mandatory.Closest are online wars.Visit CAD and IL2WAR sites.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">10. Are we to expect more new planes or just diff variantes of the existing ones? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oleg showed how quickly a boosted plane can be implemented in da game.We should aim for this.Not much work for 1C and joy to us.
    General idea is to substitude not implemented machines with already flyable with close performance.Dora9 should be boosted to match D13,A4 should be boosted to western front standards,G6`43 should be boosted for latewar usage etc.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">11. Any other Epic whine worth mentioning? (any side) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sow me a bigger whine than a 50cal whine.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
    13. Why they keep changing the FM of the P-51 series? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They`re doing this as if they were blind-folded.Every change hopes for a glorious return of P51 whereas online experience shows otherwise.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">14. Will they correct the Fw-190A series boost? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Easy thing to do.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">15. IYO will the exotic LW planes wiil ever see the light Online? why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Don`t hope for DF servers.In coops we have them flying every single day.
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  7. #7
    Hristo_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Dec 2003
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    1. Who decides what plane is going to be included in the next patch/addon?

    Probably Oleg & team. Maybe community has influence in case of warwinners .


    2. What methods are used to determine it?

    Methods ?


    3. Gibbage said Luftwaffe fanboys (lwfb) whinned about the YP-80, how loud and heavy was it?

    Gibbage says a lot of things


    4. Did reds whine the same when the Me-262,Me-163,He-162,Go-229 were released? as they're today with the Do-335, K-4 C3

    First they whined in advance, then whined for banning those planes.


    5. Why do you think Oleg included the exotic luftwaffe planes over, for instance the Meteor?

    Me 262, He 162 and Me 163 are not exotics. especially Me 262 was regular ocurrence in 1944/45.


    Exotics are Go229 and somewhat Do335. Gibbage modeled both. On second thought, he modeled more exotics - YP-80 .

    Meteor has little to offer compared to Me 262, so not very interesting to model. It also never engaged in combat with enemy planes.


    6. What other exotic Allied (esp British and American) planes SHOULD be included.

    Exotic ? IMO, anything from Sopwith Camel to F-22. Server admins can then decide which ones should fly.


    7. Why on warclouds almost everybody(allied) fly the neu Spit IX 25lbs, Tempest, Mosquito? is it bc they're new? [granted a lot of lwfb fly the K-4 c3 but not many... and flying the JU-88 isn't exactly an advantage]

    They are new and they are good.


    8. If Jets were Included on the planesets of servers you think everybody would be flying the jets?

    Only Blue side had jets flying in combat in real life. This is roughly 50% of players. Die hard fans of props will not fly them, so I give 50/50 distribution.

    IMO, 1/4 of player population would fly the Me 262 if enabled.


    9. What is exactly an Historical Online Mission and what elements are mandatory? (IMO I don't think anyone could gather all the elements or have complete control of the mission)

    Strap on lederhosen, shoot down Indianer, shout Horrido and come to this board to brag. Repeat.


    10. Are we to expect more new planes or just diff variantes of the existing ones?

    Are we alone in the universe ?


    11. Any other Epic whine worth mentioning? (any side)

    It is about to happen. When Me 262 returns to where it should be - on 1944/45 servers.


    12. Any chance getting new cokpit for the P-47 and Me-163?

    Even if you started modeling it right now, probably not.


    13. Why they keep changing the FM of the P-51 series?

    Flipflopping between Red whining and engineering approach.


    14. Will they correct the Fw-190A series boost?

    Probably.


    15. IYO will the exotic LW planes wiil ever see the light Online? why?

    Exotic planes belong to exotic servers. I have seen servers with Go229, YP-80 and Bi-1 enabled.
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  8. #8
    If Me262 was banned because it was good and everyone flew it.. lets start a campaign.. ban the 25 lb Spit !!! Because I see 99% of planes are Spit 25lb or Temptest now. It gets REAALY silly. And these donâ´t have the disadvanteges that Me262 have.
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  9. #9
    The only reason to bann some planes off some severs if they are used in an unhistorical manner.

    For instance, having 10 Me262s against 10 Allied fighters is not only unfair, but highly unhistorical. What would be better is 2 me262s and 8 standard LW planes against 10 Allied. Actually, the ratio should be more like 15 Allied versus 1 me262 and 4 normal Axis.

    Remember, me262 online pilots are BETTER then their real-life counterparts as they get to learn from their mistakes. When the Me262 first came out in FB it was very realistic in that the online pilots never really knew what to do and made very similar mistakes to reality (engine burnout, not throttling gently, etc), but now they`re experts and 2 me262s can quite possibly `own` a server.

    Other planes may be banned because they didn`t exist or weren`t actually used.

    It does get silly if a plane that did exist in numbers gets banned though just because it`s actual good. I remeber when the I16 type 24 was banned off a 1940s server simply because its cannons were too good! Stupid. It existed in numbers at the time. The trick is to work together to defeat it - Team work, hard for a lot of people to get.
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  10. #10
    Hawgdog's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:


    For instance, having 10 Me262s against 10 Allied fighters is not only unfair, but highly unhistorical. What would be better is 2 me262s and 8 standard LW planes against 10 Allied. Actually, the ratio should be more like 15 Allied versus 1 me262 and 4 normal Axis.

    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    With respect:

    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

    If this were true, This virtual war would have been over already! Been flying since 2001, its 2006......so we'd be in Berlin already LOL
    I think banning planes- other than 109z types is poppyclackers (take that bad word filter)
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