1. #1
    Am I the only one who is bothered by drastically one-sided historical dogfight servers? I don't mind a normal disadvantage, but PTO setups with the P-38J vs A6M3, Ki-43, Ki-61 aren't worth it. Perhaps if the Ki-61 were a variant with 20mm in the cowl...
    Flew the P-38 and landed 6 kills. Switched to blue out of sympathy and did get one 38, watched another dive to the enemy field at full speed to vulch, ran away for 15km, turned around and dove again at the field to vulch, rinse, repeat. Flying like that when your aircraft is vastly superior is a sin.

    Other early/mid-war PTO setups are almost as bad...

    Blegh.
    Share this post

  2. #2
    Am I the only one who is bothered by drastically one-sided historical dogfight servers? I don't mind a normal disadvantage, but PTO setups with the P-38J vs A6M3, Ki-43, Ki-61 aren't worth it. Perhaps if the Ki-61 were a variant with 20mm in the cowl...
    Flew the P-38 and landed 6 kills. Switched to blue out of sympathy and did get one 38, watched another dive to the enemy field at full speed to vulch, ran away for 15km, turned around and dove again at the field to vulch, rinse, repeat. Flying like that when your aircraft is vastly superior is a sin.

    Other early/mid-war PTO setups are almost as bad...

    Blegh.
    Share this post

  3. #3
    Shameless plug for my I-16 campaign. This time the odds will be stacked against you:
    Share this post

  4. #4
    It's called realism.

    "Flying like that when your aircraft is vastly superior is a sin."

    No, fighting the other guy's fight is a sin.

    In spite of the obvious advantages of the US planes over most Japanese planes, a look at server stats will show that most people in this sim have no idea how to use those advantages. If you can't catch the smart ones, just go after all the other goobers TnB'ing on the deck. Not long ago I watched 3 or 4 F6F's dive down to the deck and start maneuvering with Zekes within spitting distance of the enemy field. Of course, in very short order most of the Hellcat drivers were shot down.
    Share this post

  5. #5
    y'know, zeros are slow, doesnt matter if you are on the deck or at 30,000ft

    may as well be slower at 30,000ft and bounce some 38s, dont think it cant be done in game or wasnt IRL sir

    zero still holds climb, turn, roll(M3, depending on speed), and slight accel over the 38 at any alt

    although IRL the M5a was best diving zero, in game the M3 is best, and its dive will do in a "FR" setting

    Ki61s aquitted themselves well in the face of 38s and F4Us, historically, or at least did moreso, until US pilots learned that Tonys could keep up in dives and treated them accordingly...
    Share this post

  6. #6
    JtD's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    3,898
    The mid war PTO is terribly hard to balance. Essentially the Japanese are using planes that are roughly on par with 1941 US model right into 1944.

    Otoh I have learned that a setup A6M vs. P-38 is not as one sided as you'd think if you just look at the planes performance. The actual balance in this case depends a lot on the pilots involved. Admittedly now the vast majority are veterans, but back in the days when half the players did not know anything about tactics you'd see a lot of folks do better in the A6M than in the P-38 and the map would be fairly balanced.

    This of course changes as people discover tactics, realize the P-38 is great and all the veterans go pick it, with the all the less experienced players flying the A6M.

    WRT the Ki-61 - it can outdive the P-38. So if it was available, there's no reason why an enemy P-38 could do more than one hit and run attack against that base, even if the Ki-61 is not cannon armed.

    Personally I've come to the habit to fly Japanese on maps like that, unless the US side is severely outnumbered for whichever reason. It just feels a lot better if you manage to beat the odds.

    Edit: Just found map stats for a map that puts the F4U-1A vs. Japanese planes, they say 0.57 kills per flight for the F4U, 0.49 for the slower rest of the US fighters 0.54 for the A6M5 and 0.23 for the rest of the Japanese fighters (mostly Ki-61). It appears that the balance of the map is still acceptable, considering that the A6M is the more popular than all other model combined.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    Well early PTO maps are not so often seen.
    Where the advantage is on the Japanese side, simular to early WWII maps in Europe, haven´t seen any yet with the invasion of Poland or France topics.
    Also if you do not fly to play out the advantages of your plane then you are at your oponents mercy.
    Most fighter fliers tend to just furball no matter what aircraft they have. The more experianced pilots will try and play out the advantages of their plane.

    For example when ever I see an interesting PTO map and a Betty is available I realy enjoy flying that bird. Is of couse at a big disadvantage against late war allied fighters, but I fly then so that I am hard to find, do long detours to hit my target from a not expected route. It is possible to fly these weaker planes and survive, just don´t play to the advantages of the better allied planes.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    I don't mind the one-sided plane sets. What really gets me off is when folks send the team balance out of whack by choosing to fly 15 P-40s and 10 A-20s vs 5 Zeros and 2 Betties. The map gets rolled before I'm halfway to target.

    It would be nice if people balanced themselves out.

    I hope to see an auto-balance in the future (IL-2 or SoW). Some fights were lop-sided, of course, and it would be nice to program that into the balancing mechanism when necessary.
    Share this post

  9. #9
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boosher:
    Shameless plug for my I-16 campaign. This time the odds will be stacked against you: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Played it through four times already.

    I prefer to play as the underdog most of the time. "Balance" seems like such a silly concern. Look at the Warclouds server. Balanced to within an inch of it's life and the most static, uninspired and repetitive MP experience out there.
    Share this post

  10. #10
    JtD's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    3,898
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Romanator21:

    I hope to see an auto-balance in the future (IL-2 or SoW). Some fights were lop-sided, of course, and it would be nice to program that into the balancing mechanism when necessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'd like to be able to set the map balance in the map file, for instance a setting "team 1 max 45%".
    Share this post