1. #1
    g5r_88's Avatar Banned
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    hello! I`ve been playing Il2, and all its expansions for some time now. I like the game very much, but there are some things that make it historically inaccurate and incorrect compared to some actual aircraft`s performace.

    So I want to make a list of the things I don`t like, or possible improvements on the game. Not to be a pain in the a**, just constructive criticism. :-)

    Real aircraft Vs in the game (may not be complete):
    1) German jets didn`t get theyr engine afire by just rapidly increasing throttle - they flamed out. In the game they just catch fire, and not even fuel shutoff, and a steep dive blows out the fire.
    2) He162 Vs YP80. Now from the official records, the YP80 had a not reliable engine and was not much maneuverable. In the game is propably the best jet fighter. Interesting to note that both he162 and yp80 have nearly same power to weight ratio - 1 to 2, while yp80 weighs TWICE as much. That is simly absurd.
    3) Ta152. Officially, and in the game, its supposed to be the fastest, and best maneuverable plane. I discovered that its IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with a P51. Also, MW50, like the name suggests, is Methanol-Wasser WEP system. Its needless to say that this boost cools the engine as it boosts it, however in the game it just damages the engine after 2`d or 3`d boost. The Gm1 also damages the engine, and that at high altitude (10000m) where the engine won`t put out 1700-2000 BHP, but more like 1500 plus boost, which means something like 1800 again. Now why the hell does even that damage it, while all american fighters (P51, P47) just keep on going?
    4) The speed indicators. What speed does the onboard indicator show? What speed does the speed bar show? Neither ones show TAS I believe, nor CAS, nor relative ground speed. At about 6000 meters, the latest prop fighters had they highest speed, however neither the P51 nor the Ta152 go ever above 600Kmh. ?????????
    5) When I fly the Me163, it doen`t go much past 920-930KmH, and that`s at ground level. At 3000 meters, its official speed record was 1004 (!!) Kmh. Now needless to say, rocket engines gain power with less airpressure, so at 10000 meters its should be doing well above 1000Kmh, if not supersonic. I climed with it to 40Km, there the speed bar showed something like 400Kmh, while I lost altitude at about 400 meters a second, that`s about 100ms above the speed of sound from 20-30Km altitude! What the hell does the speed bar show? What do the onboard instruments show??
    6) Same problem as above with speed indication and RAPID loss of power with all the jets.
    7) Acceleration in a moderate descent. Read this http://mach1.luftarchiv.de/
    In Il2, to achieve this even with "vulnarability" disabeled is impossible, or possible only when you just reach ground level in a 90 (!!!) degreees dive.


    Possible improvements:

    Planes:
    Gloster Gladiator, He219, pilotable versions of b17, B29 and B27, pilotable Me 323 (that would be just awsome!), He 280, He 100, Ta 154, Fw 200 C-3, Bv 155, Messerschmitt P.1101, Me 209, Hs 130 E-0. Any other planes that actually participated in combat.

    Plane equipment:
    More loadout alternatives to all the planes, Radars for planes that actually had some in ww2, possibility to operate loop antenna and radio beacons for it, more loudout alternatives to all planes (for example 40mm cannons for the Spits)

    Added realism:
    Icing and deicing (if available), pitot tube icing and heat, partial damage of steering instead of completely knocked out, radiator leaks, oil radiator leaks, oil radiator fire, more realistic armor effect on all planes, poccibility to extinguish some fires with a steep dive, more intillect for the autopilot (sometimes it just runs the plane in the ground), realistic ammo effects - HE shells tare large holes - MG fire perforates or sets afire,


    And a possible new expansion for luft`46? Not necessarily a complete fiction, but say include the X4 rocket, the Natter interceptor and TV guided rockets (actually used in the war). This site can give plenty of ideas http://www.luftarchiv.de
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  2. #2
    g5r_88's Avatar Banned
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    hello! I`ve been playing Il2, and all its expansions for some time now. I like the game very much, but there are some things that make it historically inaccurate and incorrect compared to some actual aircraft`s performace.

    So I want to make a list of the things I don`t like, or possible improvements on the game. Not to be a pain in the a**, just constructive criticism. :-)

    Real aircraft Vs in the game (may not be complete):
    1) German jets didn`t get theyr engine afire by just rapidly increasing throttle - they flamed out. In the game they just catch fire, and not even fuel shutoff, and a steep dive blows out the fire.
    2) He162 Vs YP80. Now from the official records, the YP80 had a not reliable engine and was not much maneuverable. In the game is propably the best jet fighter. Interesting to note that both he162 and yp80 have nearly same power to weight ratio - 1 to 2, while yp80 weighs TWICE as much. That is simly absurd.
    3) Ta152. Officially, and in the game, its supposed to be the fastest, and best maneuverable plane. I discovered that its IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with a P51. Also, MW50, like the name suggests, is Methanol-Wasser WEP system. Its needless to say that this boost cools the engine as it boosts it, however in the game it just damages the engine after 2`d or 3`d boost. The Gm1 also damages the engine, and that at high altitude (10000m) where the engine won`t put out 1700-2000 BHP, but more like 1500 plus boost, which means something like 1800 again. Now why the hell does even that damage it, while all american fighters (P51, P47) just keep on going?
    4) The speed indicators. What speed does the onboard indicator show? What speed does the speed bar show? Neither ones show TAS I believe, nor CAS, nor relative ground speed. At about 6000 meters, the latest prop fighters had they highest speed, however neither the P51 nor the Ta152 go ever above 600Kmh. ?????????
    5) When I fly the Me163, it doen`t go much past 920-930KmH, and that`s at ground level. At 3000 meters, its official speed record was 1004 (!!) Kmh. Now needless to say, rocket engines gain power with less airpressure, so at 10000 meters its should be doing well above 1000Kmh, if not supersonic. I climed with it to 40Km, there the speed bar showed something like 400Kmh, while I lost altitude at about 400 meters a second, that`s about 100ms above the speed of sound from 20-30Km altitude! What the hell does the speed bar show? What do the onboard instruments show??
    6) Same problem as above with speed indication and RAPID loss of power with all the jets.
    7) Acceleration in a moderate descent. Read this http://mach1.luftarchiv.de/
    In Il2, to achieve this even with "vulnarability" disabeled is impossible, or possible only when you just reach ground level in a 90 (!!!) degreees dive.


    Possible improvements:

    Planes:
    Gloster Gladiator, He219, pilotable versions of b17, B29 and B27, pilotable Me 323 (that would be just awsome!), He 280, He 100, Ta 154, Fw 200 C-3, Bv 155, Messerschmitt P.1101, Me 209, Hs 130 E-0. Any other planes that actually participated in combat.

    Plane equipment:
    More loadout alternatives to all the planes, Radars for planes that actually had some in ww2, possibility to operate loop antenna and radio beacons for it, more loudout alternatives to all planes (for example 40mm cannons for the Spits)

    Added realism:
    Icing and deicing (if available), pitot tube icing and heat, partial damage of steering instead of completely knocked out, radiator leaks, oil radiator leaks, oil radiator fire, more realistic armor effect on all planes, poccibility to extinguish some fires with a steep dive, more intillect for the autopilot (sometimes it just runs the plane in the ground), realistic ammo effects - HE shells tare large holes - MG fire perforates or sets afire,


    And a possible new expansion for luft`46? Not necessarily a complete fiction, but say include the X4 rocket, the Natter interceptor and TV guided rockets (actually used in the war). This site can give plenty of ideas http://www.luftarchiv.de
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  3. #3
    MEGILE's Avatar Senior Member
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    http://www.answers.com/topic/airspeed-indicator

    Everything you need to know about Indicated Airspeed.

    Enjoy.
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  4. #4
    berg417448's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by g5r_88:



    5) When I fly the Me163, it doen`t go much past 920-930KmH, and that`s at ground level. At 3000 meters, its official speed record was 1004 (!!) Kmh. Now needless to say, rocket engines gain power with less airpressure, so at 10000 meters its should be doing well above 1000Kmh, if not supersonic. I climed with it to 40Km, there the speed bar showed something like 400Kmh, while I lost altitude at about 400 meters a second, that`s about 100ms above the speed of sound from 20-30Km altitude! What the hell does the speed bar show? What do the onboard instruments show??
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Me-163 could not go supersonic:


    "On the Me 163, the combination of the aft shift in aerodynamic center and shock stall led to a dangerous condition known as €œMach tuck.€ If the Mach number exceeded approximately 0.85, the airplane would begin to nose down on its own. The pilot would naturally react by pulling on the stick and deflecting the elevons upward. This would cause a shock wave to form on the underside of the wing at the elevon hinge line. The elevons would shock stall and be unable to bring the nose up, causing the airplane to pitch over into an ever-steepening dive. The only hope for recovery was to wait until the airplane had dived to a lower altitude where the speed of sound is higher, thus reducing Mach number, and the elevons would regain effectiveness."

    http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/me163/me163_6.asp


    Read the book ROCKET FIGHTER by Mano Ziegler and you'll read about the Me-163 going totally out of control at 1050 kph during an attampt to intercept a high flying P-38.

    There is a big difference between indicated airspeed and true airspeed.
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  5. #5
    Welcome!

    A luftwaffe '46 campaign would involve wondering if you could put up with the frame-rate hit rendering a mushroom cloud over Berlin.
    Could your present rig handle it, or do you want to upgrade?

    Now if you want to consider adding aeroplanes like the Do-17, He-177 Savoi-Marchetti bombers or Westland Whirlwind, I'm sure your present system could cope.
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  6. #6
    Taylortony's Avatar Senior Member
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    1) German jets didn`t get theyr engine afire by just rapidly increasing throttle - they flamed out


    The 262 did I just read an article by a pilot that joined Gallands (i think it was) Unit at the end of the war and he commented on it.
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  7. #7
    g5r_88's Avatar Banned
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
    http://www.answers.com/topic/airspeed-indicator

    Everything you need to know about Indicated Airspeed.

    Enjoy.
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I`m taking PPL theory now, and I don`t think that page sais anything I don`t already know.
    But it would be NICE to know the ground speed as well.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
    Me-163 could not go supersonic:


    "On the Me 163, the combination of the aft shift in aerodynamic center and shock stall led to a dangerous condition known as €œMach tuck.€ If the Mach number exceeded approximately 0.85, the airplane would begin to nose down on its own. The pilot would naturally react by pulling on the stick and deflecting the elevons upward. This would cause a shock wave to form on the underside of the wing at the elevon hinge line. The elevons would shock stall and be unable to bring the nose up, causing the airplane to pitch over into an ever-steepening dive. The only hope for recovery was to wait until the airplane had dived to a lower altitude where the speed of sound is higher, thus reducing Mach number, and the elevons would regain effectiveness."

    http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/me163/me163_6.asp


    Read the book ROCKET FIGHTER by Mano Ziegler and you'll read about the Me-163 going totally out of control at 1050 kph during an attampt to intercept a high flying P-38. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well the Me262 wasn`t supposed to do that either, but it did.
    The thing with that explenation is not the "impossibility" of going supersonic -its the way its done. If the speed of sound is approached slowly, yes the above described pressures on different parts form, violent vibrations etc, and of cource control is lost in the process. However, in a slight dive, where speed increases RAPIDLY, the aircraft would pass the speed of sound and regain some control after that, however what I do agree with completely is that the Komet would not be much good at flying at such speeds.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
    Welcome!

    A luftwaffe '46 campaign would involve wondering if you could put up with the frame-rate hit rendering a mushroom cloud over Berlin.
    Could your present rig handle it, or do you want to upgrade? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hey did you hear the joke of the 5 swedes? They tried to see who could lean farthest out of the window - and number 3 fell out.
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  8. #8
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by g5r_88:
    1) German jets didn`t get theyr engine afire by just rapidly increasing throttle - they flamed out. In the game they just catch fire, and not even fuel shutoff, and a steep dive blows out the fire.

    3) Ta152. Officially, and in the game, its supposed to be the fastest, and best maneuverable plane. I discovered that its IMPOSSIBLE to catch up with a P51. Also, MW50, like the name suggests, is Methanol-Wasser WEP system. Its needless to say that this boost cools the engine as it boosts it, however in the game it just damages the engine after 2`d or 3`d boost. The Gm1 also damages the engine, and that at high altitude (10000m) where the engine won`t put out 1700-2000 BHP, but more like 1500 plus boost, which means something like 1800 again. Now why the hell does even that damage it, while all american fighters (P51, P47) just keep on going?
    [/URL] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    1. Me 262 DID catch fire all the time. Read about Adolf Gallands first time in a 262, and all other German pilots experiences with them. You must throttle up slow in the game as with the real plane.

    3. With MW50 you must ONLY switch it on when UNDER 100% throttle. Some throttle back to 0 but I just put it on at 95% and all seems ok. Otherwise it will damage the engine.

    GM-1 - I am not totally familiar with how to use this properly, but its only for hi-alt fighting otherwise it will ruin your engine too. Ask around for the correct height to use this.

    Erhote Niostung can be used at any throttle and under any conditions I think.

    Sorry if you know this already, its not very clear from your post if this is what you mean or you are talking about a feature I dont know about (what is 2`d or 3`d boost??)


    I like your improvement suggestions, but you have to remember that this game has limits, its on a very old game engine by the grand scheme of things and its amazing the things Oleg has put into this game.

    People seem to forget how much work there is just to add a simple thing in a game. For example, for the people complaining about zoom climbs, how would YOU go about putting your data into the game engine?

    Oleg has a new game coming out on a brand new engine next year, Battle Of Britain, he will then go on to add planes onto that new engine, so your suggestions may be good for that.
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  9. #9
    waffen-79's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
    A luftwaffe '46 campaign would involve wondering if you could put up with the frame-rate hit rendering a mushroom cloud over Berlin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    An A-Bomb dropped over European soil prior 1965? I don't think so, even in the worst scenario for the allies, they just couldn't do it, not over western europe.

    A Luft'46 campaign, er I don't believe is crussial for the Il-2 series; flyable medium and heavy bombers would've been more neccesary just as Low_Flyer said....(B-17,C-47,Lancaster,JU-88, JU-52)
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  10. #10
    About TA boost, engage GM1 only above 9000m when u come below, throttle down and disengage and re-engage to swap back to MW50

    Never ever engage GM1/MW50 with throttle opened up, you only risk for engine damage


    also keep in mind that u have limited supply of both and when your mw50 and/or gm1 supply finishes, keeping it engaged will ruin your engine too
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