1. #1
    Try to down P-47 with 20mm cannon, online or offline, count the hits, and after that think, if it really is realistic. no matter where you shoot to down that plane, almost ALWAYS, you need huge amounts of 20mm hits on it, or at Corsair.

    once there was one P47 which took some 200 hits from machine gun and some 10(?) hits from 20mm, and it was like wonder those days, cos we can read about it from books. now, every P47 pilot makes the same wonder. Should downgrade the DM toughness of P47 and Sair.
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  2. #2
    Try the Mg/FF or shoot at control cables .)
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  3. #3
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
    Try to down P-47 with 20mm cannon, online or offline, count the hits, and after that think, if it really is realistic. no matter where you shoot to down that plane, almost ALWAYS, you need huge amounts of 20mm hits on it, or at Corsair.

    once there was one P47 which took some 200 hits from machine gun and some 10(?) hits from 20mm, and it was like wonder those days, cos we can read about it from books. now, every P47 pilot makes the same wonder. Should downgrade the DM toughness of P47 and Sair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Actually...about 4 hits on a P-47 can doom the plane by taking out two or three control cables and the pilot has to bail.

    The P-47 and the Corsair were tough planes. Designed for enormous punishment and capable of taking it. However, my experiences online show equally that the ability to sustain that punishment only goes so far. It only takes a few more hits to down or force the downing of one of these planes.

    What you need to work on is aim. And both of these are large targets that are more easily hit than the smaller less durable planes.

    Tip: On the Corsairs, there is a fuel tank in high back area. Shoot for that section from the sides to try and explode or light up the fuel tank.

    A good deflection shot will down a Corsair almost as easily as a Zero. Shooting from dead six like too many players do is another thing altogether.
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  4. #4
    The P-47, F6F and F4U where three of the toughest planes in the skies during WWII. The current DM seems very believable to me. Wing roots of the P-47 are vulnerable, aim there with 20mm. The other weak spot is low 6 firing up into the engine, this will kill it even with Mg131.

    Perhaps Oleg will improve the explosive effect of Mg151/20 minengeschoss rounds and it will take slightly fewer hits.
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  5. #5
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Perhaps Oleg will improve the explosive effect of Mg151/20 minengeschoss rounds and it will take slightly fewer hits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Or perhaps, like in pretty much every other patch for a long time now, he won't.

    190 was supposed to be quite tough with it's big radial, self sealing tanks and armour but in the game it's far from it...except to say that it's marginally stronger than the 109. Fuel leak bugs, wings off'd easily and dead engines with small numbers of hits being key to the usual 190 demise.

    Look on the bright side, though - at least the gunsight doesn't fall off if you sneeze now. Having said that, I think I preferred the gunsight falling off to the ridiculous out of fuel achilles heel.



    Cheers,
    Norris
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  6. #6
    horseback's Avatar Senior Member
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    A larger aircraft means that the main structural members are farther apart, so it takes more hits to take out more than one key structure, or you need a tightly bunched group of hits to break off a big piece. As a bonus, the size usually means that those structural members are stronger, and will take more abuse than a smaller and more lightly built aircraft's structural members.

    A larger target also means that you tend to start firing sooner (from farther away), but that your hits are going to be more widely distributed across the target, and lose a bit of their kinetic energy, and in some cases, their destructive power.

    Thunderbolts and Corsairs were large, heavily built aircraft that usually took a lot of hits before they would go down. Peppering their rears with light MGs from any distance had limited effect unless the pilot or a key control cable was hit. Even 20mm hits had to hit key spots, so the DM may not be as generous as you think.

    cheers

    horseback
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  7. #7
    I've never had any problems shooting P-47's down.My rule of thumb is to always aim for the wings on an a/c.I don't find the Thunderbolt to be any easier or harder to shoot down than any other plane.But then again,when you fly the Hurri,you quickly learn to make your shots count as just about everyone can out run ya LOL
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  8. #8
    JG7_Rall's Avatar Banned
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    While the P47 is vulnerable, I can see what the author is saying. The Jug was a tough bird indeed, capable of taking a lot of punishment from other planes and from ground fire. However, some people seem to believe that it should be able to withstand atomic blasts and such. It's still a plane guys - and shouldn't be immune to fire just because it's "heavily armored". It's tough, but a plane can only be armored so much. I think it's a problem with the MG 151, not necessarily the jug, and with an upgraded 20mm (not that I expect it to happen any time soon) the jug should take marginally more hits than other aircraft.
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  9. #9
    chris455's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
    Try to down P-47 with 20mm cannon, online or offline, count the hits, and after that think, if it really is realistic. no matter where you shoot to down that plane, almost ALWAYS, you need huge amounts of 20mm hits on it, or at Corsair.

    once there was one P47 which took some 200 hits from machine gun and some 10(?) hits from 20mm, and it was like wonder those days, cos we can read about it from books. now, every P47 pilot makes the same wonder. Should downgrade the DM toughness of P47 and Sair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not sure what you mean by "Sair" (there is no such airplane) but the P-47 DM is fine as is, thank you.
    On the other hand, it could use a little toughening up when hit in the engine from dead ahead with rifle caliber MGs- far too fragile in my opinion, compared to R/L.
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  10. #10
    TX-Zen's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    Shooting from dead six like too many players do is another thing altogether. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree Ice. At the original poster I would say that I think this is not really an issue with the 47 or the Corsair, because the DM calculations of the game have allowed most planes to survive too many hits to the trailing edge surfaces. Sometimes I get the distinct impression that those are the most heavily armored areas of planes in game because its very common to do little or no damage to those areas They tend to just keep absorbing fire for some reason.

    I think this is primarily because the calculated effects of HE rounds don't really cause as much surface area damage as they probably should, the game still continues to favor AP rounds in many cases. As a general statement accuracy is a bit too high for typical HE rounds compared to higher MV AP rounds, but damage effects are probably too low, the result being that you hit too many times to bring the guy down whereas you should probably miss a little more but do more damage when you hit. Is the net result even? Possibly, but clear hits for light damage are more frustrating than realizing you missed completely and taking better aim.



    This kind of gunnery DM has always seemed kind of off in the sim imho.
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