1. #1
    jayhall0315's Avatar Banned
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    Okay, having faced many, many veterans now and some really top notch aces both in full real circumstances and lowly open cockpit servers, I still keep running into guys who swear by using flaps after the initial pass and believe they are floating higher due to their use (that is they feel they are guarding their potential energy advantage well by using them to maintain more altitude).

    The only problem ?

    After much testing, I can only see that everytime I use flaps, I gain LESS altitude than when I do not. The in-game drag that is generated is simply greater than any possible lift advantage and my altitude is usually much less. Without any nod to being cocky as well, the combat results do not bear out these guys either. I am usually doing quite well against them and maintaining both greater altitude and more potential energy after the initial pass.

    So my question is, why do so many swear by using flaps to float to higher elevations ? It seems just using the best climbing speed with no flaps deployed is the best strategy ?
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  2. #2
    jayhall0315's Avatar Banned
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    Okay, having faced many, many veterans now and some really top notch aces both in full real circumstances and lowly open cockpit servers, I still keep running into guys who swear by using flaps after the initial pass and believe they are floating higher due to their use (that is they feel they are guarding their potential energy advantage well by using them to maintain more altitude).

    The only problem ?

    After much testing, I can only see that everytime I use flaps, I gain LESS altitude than when I do not. The in-game drag that is generated is simply greater than any possible lift advantage and my altitude is usually much less. Without any nod to being cocky as well, the combat results do not bear out these guys either. I am usually doing quite well against them and maintaining both greater altitude and more potential energy after the initial pass.

    So my question is, why do so many swear by using flaps to float to higher elevations ? It seems just using the best climbing speed with no flaps deployed is the best strategy ?
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  3. #3
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    There was a thread over a year ago where Kettenhunde showed use of the rectilinear formula for
    zoom climb. You might get him to run through it again now that the troll who buried it over
    and over under pages of spam is banned.
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  4. #4
    What they claim would only be true if they are using planes with 'leading edge' slats like the 109 or Lavochkin. And for me this would be true only if you are on the edge of stall since the 109 would still be responsive due to the slats and adding flaps would further delay the stall. Normally this means 90-110kph in a 109.

    If they are talkign about something else then I don't know since I don't do this for any other planes only the 109/Lavochkin and even then I only mostly use this for the 109. Other use it in the mustang and P-39 to delay stalling and still have some control.
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  5. #5
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    On several sites there are historic time to alt test documents for many different planes.

    Please ANYONE show me such a document where flaps were used.
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  6. #6
    WTE_Galway's Avatar Senior Member
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    Note that not all flaps are the same, there is a massive difference between the effect of Fowler flap on planes like the P38 and the barn door style fitted to a Spitfire.

    Also bare in mind that gamers are often not that much up on the theory and hence do not really understand flaps. For example the first thing you learn about flaps in real world flight school is that aside from a lower stall speed they give you a REDUCED angle of attack and more visibility at a particular speed. I have seen threads on this forum where people have obsessively insisted on the opposite.
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  7. #7
    Greater Speed makes the wing produce greater lift.

    However, if you've got sufficient energy the intitial climb rate may be boosted for a short burst with the use of combat flaps but this is effective for combat bursts only - not for sustained climb rate - and an eye has to be kept on the Vertical Velocity Indicator. Better to lower the nose when in the clear and accelerate to intitial rate of climb airspeed for a climbout.

    Flaps are designed to increase the lift co-efficient but the perception from inside the cockpit that it is the flaps making the climb faster is an illusion - much like the illusion when looking behind in a horizonatal turn and perceiving that the aircraft is not horizontal in the turn but diving; when in fact it is horizontal throughout the turn when you look at the instruments.

    in fact an aircraft can have its nose nearer to horizontal and be climbing very quickly.

    The only flaps I know of that assist performance by not inducing a great drag penalty are fowler flaps - but this performance is more characteristic in making a turn tighter.

    Regards KT
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  8. #8
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    There was a thread over a year ago where Kettenhunde showed use of the rectilinear formula for
    zoom climb. You might get him to run through it again now that the troll who buried it over
    and over under pages of spam is banned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is it this thread? 45 pages....

    http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...2421020665/p/1

    Going to take a while to read

    Stingray
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  9. #9
    jayhall0315's Avatar Banned
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X32Wright:
    What they claim would only be true if they are using planes with 'leading edge' slats like the 109 or Lavochkin. And for me this would be true only if you are on the edge of stall since the 109 would still be responsive due to the slats and adding flaps would further delay the stall. Normally this means 90-110kph in a 109.

    If they are talkign about something else then I don't know since I don't do this for any other planes only the 109/Lavochkin and even then I only mostly use this for the 109. Other use it in the mustang and P-39 to delay stalling and still have some control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Simple question Wright; How do you specifically activate leading edge slats in-game? I know how to activate the three (combat, ..) main types of regular flaps, but leading edge slats ? .... clueless.

    Thanks - Jay
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  10. #10
    WTE_Galway's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhall0315:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X32Wright:
    What they claim would only be true if they are using planes with 'leading edge' slats like the 109 or Lavochkin. And for me this would be true only if you are on the edge of stall since the 109 would still be responsive due to the slats and adding flaps would further delay the stall. Normally this means 90-110kph in a 109.

    If they are talkign about something else then I don't know since I don't do this for any other planes only the 109/Lavochkin and even then I only mostly use this for the 109. Other use it in the mustang and P-39 to delay stalling and still have some control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Simple question Wright; How do you specifically activate leading edge slats in-game? I know how to activate the three (combat, ..) main types of regular flaps, but leading edge slats ? .... clueless.

    Thanks - Jay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    \

    Whereas many modern aircraft with slats such as the Cessna Citation business jet or the heavies like the 747 have the slats activated electrically or hydraullically, as far as I know all the aircraft in game with slats were similar to the bf109 where the slats are automatic.

    The 109 slats are spring loaded and activate whenever the air pressure at the leading edge can no longer hold them shut.

    Just fly a 109 and watch the slats out the window when you pull up into a steep climb and lose speed.

    Theoretically the historical best turn in a 109 involved manipulating the slats by pulling hard to tighten the turn and opening the slats and then easing off to regain speed as they closed before repeating it all over again giving you an egg shaped turn. I have no idea if this works in game or not.
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