1. #1
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    At different speeds your plane may be able to pull limited G's in a flat turn, and may not be able to sustain those G's.

    At 300 kph for example, most of these planes can pull 4 G's or less and can't maintain more than about 3 1/2 at sea level and less with increased altitude. Start of turn 300kph and 4 G's bleeds down to slower and less G's. Typical turn fighter?

    You have this dynamic between speed and G's that gives the radius of the turn. Below some speed the plane will stall but at that speed it will turn the tightest radius for the G's applied. But the tightest 3 G turn, is that the tightest possible?

    So here is the setup: Some other plane going faster than his lowest 6 G speed may be able to make a near equal or even tighter radius and will take time to bleed down to where he can't pull 6 G's... call it 'smash'.

    And if you are in DF and see this happen where perhaps the known better turning plane is out-turned then hey what do you say?
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  2. #2
    K_Freddie's Avatar Senior Member
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    You're Gaston in disguise.. aren't you ??
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  3. #3
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Since when did G use anything that can be checked? This is about GEOMETRY and PHYSICS. Does G use those?

    go check the light blue table about 60% of the way down

    Speed - G's - Radius

    200 kts - 2 G's - 2050 ft
    300 kts - 4 G's - 2060 ft

    2x more G's at 50% more speed and almost the same radius.

    The formulae are there if you can handle them. I'm just pointing out some implications that don't seem to get much consideration by a real segment of the forum who nevertheless like to play mix-and-match with unstated facts.

    So how can a 109 out-turn a Spit? Perhaps by catching the Spit where it can't turn as hard, ie going too slow to turn hard. Anybody dumb enough to think that only applies to 109 vs Spit?

    This isn't about FAIR turn performance comparisons. It's about showing where the falsehoods get thrown in.

    BTW, one pilot who flew Black Six, a 109G-6, found the 1G clean stall to be about 155 kph. Double that is 310 kph and about there that plane should have been able to pull 4 G's at the stall edge.. and need to lose alt to keep it up.
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    And this is only FLAT turns. Add the vertical element and there is enough to show how energy fighting can result in kills very hard to avoid.
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  6. #6
    er... 300 knots = 555.6 kph. So turning in a 109 at that speed with it's concrete elevators?
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  7. #7
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    I wrote about kph which is kilometers per hour. Knots is kts, no per hour as that's part of the word knots.
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  8. #8
    Oh ok. Then 310kph is too slow to be dogfighting in a 109, at that speed you are dogmeat. The expectation of coming across a spitfire flying at 200kph, well just about possible I 'spose but unlikely. And it makes a flat turn at that speed? I'd say that would be a fatal error wouldn't you.
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  9. #9
    TheGrunch's Avatar Senior Member
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    You don't fly around at that speed hoping to find an enemy. What Gunz is saying is that that's around about the aircraft's best sustained turn speed. If you've got down to that speed it's all gone to hell anyway.
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  10. #10
    waffen-79's Avatar Senior Member
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    Hi!

    are you guys flying spits or early russian birds?

    why you need to perform flat turns?
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