View Poll Results: What do you guys think, does Cobra have the 'edge' when compared to these Japanes aircraft?

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  • Ki43s and A6M2s are both better than P39.

    16 26.23%
  • Cobra is better than Oscar and Zero.

    23 37.70%
  • Just A6M2 is better than P39.

    11 18.03%
  • Ki43 is better than P39. A6M2 is not.

    3 4.92%
  • I do not know.

    8 13.11%
  1. #31
    S!

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver.../5thafdan.html



    Carlos 'Dan' Dannacher 40th Squadron - 35th FG - Port Moresby - Tsili Tsili - Nazdab - New Guinea 1942/43



    ..
    1942 and 1943 were dark days for Americans. The Axis powers were still on a victorious march and the Army Air Force (AAF) aircrews in the Pacific had to make do with limited shipments of supplies and aircraft considered unfit for the airwar over Europe. What their crews did not lack, was the courage to take the fight to the Japanese. By utilizing the superior traits of their aircrafts more rugged construction, firepower and tactics of teamwork, pilots and air crew like Dan Dannacher held the line and ground down the Japanese combat veterans of the skies over China, Java and the Phillipines.


    The 40th FS Red Devils -----Townsville Australia was on the peninsula opposite Port Moresby


    *************************************

    The 40th had just completed two months of combat flying at Port Moresby and were on rest and recuperation. There I got in some good flying time, including high altitude formation and tactics involved battle with the Japanese who controlled the air over New Guinea. Unfortunately, we never had the resources to do air-to-air gunnery. In November 1942 we returned to Port Moresby and took up combat flying again. The 35th Group had two squadrons of P-39s and the 8th Group had two squadrons. These were the only units to defend the Port Moresby area during the April to September 1942 period. . In November we were back in New Guinea at 12-mile strip (Berry Field). We had a mixture of P-39 Ds and P-400s, the Aussie version of the P-39 originally sent to the RAF. Early on the whole group had P-39s, but the 39th were able to get into P-38s in Sept 1942. That left the 40th and 41st to fly P-39s, which we did until Dec 1944. We flew mostly air alerts, escort for bombers and troop carriers, and a small bit of ground support. We only flew in the day time, night time was too hazardous in the mountains of New Guinea. Everything was in short supply - parts, fuel, food, etc. but we managed to fly those old P-39 airplanes into the ground. We could barely get to 20,000 feet altitude because the engines were way beyond change time.




    The P-39s did not have the legs to reach the Japanese base at Lae, but the Japanese with their (Zeros) could accompany their (Betty) bombers to Port Moresby. The Japanese usually had the advantage of altitude in any battle because there was no air warning systems at the time. If the P-39s could anticipate the arrival of the Zeros and get up to their level, then the P-39 could out-dive and outrun the Zeros. Some air to air fights where a P-39 could get behind a Jap bomber made the cannon a good weapon. Otherwise, it was difficult to use manuevering against an enemy fighter and the machine guns had to do. The gunsights were rudimentary, so judgment was in vogue. The best bet was to get a good airspeed, get behind your opponent, and fly right on through their formation firing as you go, and peel off and down to break off contact. I shot at several Oscars but never hit any that I know of. I may have flown two missions with a 250 lb.bomb under the belly, and I destroyed one bridge from an excellent dive bomb run. On one mission we scrambled 12 P-39s to intercept a Japanese formation over Wau, New Guinea. Wau was about 180 miles north of Port Moresby. About 20 minutes out we were at 20,000 and ready to drop our empty belly tanks as we approached Wau, the site of a 2000' strip along side a 5000' foot mountain which was used by the C-47 Troop Carrier units. Just as we passed over Wau, my engine backfired and the manifold pressure dropped to minimum and PRM was about 1200, near to idle. The backfires continued whenever I advanced the throttle. So I dropped out of the formation and circled back toward Wau. I could see the C-47s taking off for the return to Port Moresby after unloading supplies for the Aussie infantry units. I could not see where the enemy lines were so I decided not to bail out.


    [Authors Note: For good reason as the Aussies were still beating back Japanese attacks at the far end of the runway. The Japanese were close enough to mortar the field and the Aussies had to use grenades to pushe them back and allow the c-47 to land.]

    Dan: " I figured with a clean airplane that I could make a good wheels up landing if I could just get into the correct position for a good base leg. I had to make a perfect touchdown. The peak in front of me was about 8000' so there would be no 2nd chance, and I did not want to slide into the C-47 operation. In all I had about three circles of the landing site, losing about 5000' feet per circuit.

    (From Dans Letter to Ted Parks on the landing)With a little maneuvering, slipping around and adding some backfires now and then, I managed to hit it just right and hit the ideal spot in some shallow kunai grass. When I contacted the ground my body moved up against the straps and my hand squeezed the grip and each gun fired one round. I had forgotten to de-arm the gun switch and I guess the gunsight wasn't one of my worries.

    [Note: on February 6th 8 P-39s of the 40th Squadron were escorting transports into Wau and intercepted a formation of 24 Zekes (Zeros probably Oscars) and 6 Ki-21 (Sallys). In the ensuing battle they brough down 11 of the Zekes and one of the Sallys. It was the first time the P-39 had won such a lopsided battle.]

    Dan: "The P-38s came upon the scene and they could control the air battle then. The P-38s and the B-25s knocked out the big Japanese air bases around Wewak on August 17th and that is the big reason we managed to survive.




    Squadrons and their P-39s moved 200 miles to a place called Tsili-Tsili. [a P39 named Grace under the cockpit escorting a number of C-47's.

    Tsili-Tsili (pronounced Silly Silly)] The place carved out of a plateau in the mountains. The runway was dirt, and the nearest Japanese base was Lae about 80 miles away. Our survival depended upon the C-47s to carry our fuel, food, and ammo in every day. It rained a lot, but somehow we got the P-39s into the air and we began to control the area.

    Overhead a Japanese recon plane observed the move. On the 15th as the ground echelon was flying in with the C-47's the Japanese came in with Ki-21 (Sally) bombers from Wewak with fighter escort. Dan "At that moment, the 41st Fighter Squadron escorting the C-47s arrived from Port Moresby and engaged the Japanese bombers and fighters. Tsili Tsili wasn't quite ready for our P-39s on Aug. 15th, but we kept P-39s in the air above the C-47s at all times flying from Port Moresby." From Steve Birdsals Flying Bucaneers. "One C-47 was shot out of the sky, another dissapeared into the jungle and the second flight turned back for Port Moresby. 11 of the 12 Sallys were brought down as well as several fighters. 4 P-39 went down but three of the pilots survived. Since the February fight at Wau it was the best showing ever by the P-39 but more was to come."



    Other adversaries of 1942/43 the The Ki43 (OSCAR) and the Ki61 (TONY) of the Army
    ..
    The Japanese Navy's Zero's & Bettys were flown from bases at Lae and Rabaul and the Japanese Armys KI43 (Oscar) & KI-61 Hien (Tony) were encountered around Wewak and other bases on the North Central coast of New Guinea as the advance out of Morseby began.

    Dan: "About the Japanese Tony's. The only time I saw one was when he was strafing me in January 1944. I was on the first mission after we had received our new P-47s and had just slung my parachute onto the wing when two of them slipped into Nadzab and sprayed the area. The Tony would have overwhelmed our P-39s, but it was no match for the P-47. Later on when we were up against the Japanese Frank and Georges, which had radial engines, it was an even fight.



    Dan: "In September we covered the landings of the Aussies at Lae, and staved off the Japanese air forces whenever the troops were threatened. In October we moved to the new base at Nadzab, just 50 miles north of our first base. Here we had a stabilized runway, but we were in almost daily contact with the Japanese fighters who strafed us and the bombers trying to mount a counter-attack. By December the Japanese forces no longer threatened Nadzab. We turned in our P-39s and transitioned to the new P-47 Thunderbolts.
    *************************************


    In the entire period from June 1942 to December 1943, the 40th Fighter Squadron flying P-39s shot down 55 Japanese aircraft including both fighters and bombers while losing 15 of our own. We lost many others due to weather, and some due to accidents. The 41st Fighter Squadron had a similar record. The P-39 is often demeaned as an ineffective fighter, more to be used as a cannon firing destroyer of enemy tanks. It is true that the Russians earned that reputation. (Russian Lend Lease P-39) But for the USAAF, the P-39s in the Southwest Pacific theater were the first and only aircraft to relieve the Aussies in the defense of Port Moresby in 1942. This was a major battle in WW II annals, but our air historians have neglected it. I am not a good one to assess the skill of enemy fliers. I know from others that the skill of the Japanese Zero pilots was extremely high. They had a good airplane and a lot of combat time when the US fliers finally met them. In the course of the war, it was more difficult for them to produce a lot of highly skilled pilots and so we finally overcome them. In the 1943 era the P-38s really ate up the Nips and turned the war around for us. The Oscars which I saw were flown by the Japanese Army Air Force and I think they were not, as a rule, as well trained and ready as the carrier pilots. In fact, I think that the Japanese Navy pilots really did not care to fly jointly with the Army fliers. I got hit once in WW II, but not by the Japanese. My no. 4 man hit me in the rudder of my P-47. We were on the way home from Wewak, doing some rolls to loosen up. He must have left his gun switch on. I saw the 20 mm. cannons on Japanese fighters blink at me several times, but never took a hit. And I was never able to tell if any of the firing I did was effective. As to which were the toughest missions, it seems to me that all of them were that way. Mainly because we did not know what to expect. And then when I least expected it, I had to land a P-39 wheels up near enemy territory 180 miles from home. Some were more exciting than other, as for an example on Okinawa, four of us in P-51s made a night time takeoff in order to hit the Korean coastline just at daybreak in July 1945. But we did not find any airplanes flying, only water and rail movements which we shot up easily. And a long trip to Shanghai, China made us apprehensive for awhile, but nothing ever came of it.

    had a second tour in the Pacific, coming back to 35th Group and 40th Squadron again at Clark Field in May 1945. Johnny Young, my tent-mate at Gusap, had become Group Ops. I believe he convinced Ed Doss that I should be the next 40th C.O. So I had another batch of 40th comrades to relate to and P-51s to fly. When we got P-51s we had the advantage. I never engaged any Japanese fighters during my second tour in WW II in P-51s. The air battle was ending and we were doing direct ground support for the U.S.Army troops in northern Luzon.

    In WW II the battle for the Phillipines raged from October to March 1945. The 40th was on Morotai so it flew long distances to engage the battle flying fighter sweeps over Los Negros and Mindoro in P-47D28 models which had the range for it. In January they went into Lingayen Gulf landings and from there they primaily flew sweeps over Formosa. In March the tactic shifted to dive bombing missions and the 40th lost five airplanes and crews over heavily defended harbors.


    In April the 40th traded for P-51Ds, and scored 3 victories on one mission around 6th of the month. After that the Formosa defense sort of evaporated and the 40th took up dive bombing in close support of the 6th U S Army chasing the Nip groundforces up north past Baguio. We lost some airplanes doing that, but it was due to stupid flying, not enemy defenses

    On July 1 we were on Okinawa and ready for an air war in the Japanese home area. On July 5, 1945 the 40th downed four Nicks over Kyushu and that was end of aerial combat for WW II. We landed our P-51s at Irumagawa base near Tokyo in Oct 1945.

    When I visited the Air Force Museum in 1997 I heard a docent tell her group that "the P-39 was largely ineffective, but that it did fly in Alaska". That certainly is a gross insult to all the airman who put the P-39 into battle. The P-39 and the P-40 were all that the USAAF had in early 1942, and we made the best of our fate for a year and a half in New Guinea.

    I would like to tell and retell this story until the record can be refreshed, but I fear time is beating us. I flew the P-39s and also flew 200 hundred hours in the P-47.

    What a thrill to get in that big Republic monster after struggling with the Airacobra. Whenever I entered the area over the Japanese bases in a P-47 I was always above 20,000 feet, never to give away the altitude advantage again.
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  2. #32
    P39 had a problem in offensive missions out of Port Morsby. Frequently they had to fly over mountains to reach the enemy bases-attack and escort missions. On the way home they had to climb again to get back home. Due to poor climb rate, this put the 39 in a very poor tactical position vs zeros. That is, the option to dive away was eliminated by the mountainous terrain, and the zeros chasing the 39s had a distinct advantage.
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  3. #33
    Climbed faster than the mustang

    "It's interesting to note that the rate of climb of the P-39, which everybody in
    the USAAF pissed and moaned about, was actually not that bad. The D and F
    models (identical except for props, one electric, one hydraulic) could beat
    both the P47C and P-51A to 25,000 ft.--and take *half* the time the P-40E took.
    A P-39Q could get to 25,000 ft. in about 10.5 minutes, almost six minutes
    quicker than the P-51D. (Of course, the Q couldn't fly from London to Berlin
    and back.)
    One of the reasons the P-39 got a bad rap in the SWPA was that when it was
    initially deployed fairly early in 1942, what was desperately needed was a
    super-fast climbing interceptor, because the best warning of an incoming air
    raid was about five minutes. What was needed was something like the CW-21
    (something with its rate of climb, anyway). The fact was that no fighter would
    have been able to respond effectively under those circumstances. But since the
    P-39 was what was on hand, it got ****ed by frustrated pilots struggling uphill
    at 160 mph while the Japanese, thousands of feet above, winged over and howled
    down on them.
    It's worth noting that, despite the disadvantages they fought under, the 8FG,
    which took over from RAAF 75 Squadron at Moresby, suffered fewer losses with
    its P-39s than did 75 Squadron with its P-40s. And it should not be forgotten
    that the P-39 was, in fact, not a failure in those desperate early days in New
    Guinea. The 8th (and later the 35th) and its Airacobras gave the JNAF's Tainan
    Air Wing (and later the 2AW) and its Zeros a well-pulped and very bloody nose.
    Air raids on Morseby tapered off from two a day at the end of April to one or
    two a week by the end of June. Nobody else was shooting at the Japs, so it
    must have been the P-39s that discouraged them."

    Be cool to have some of those early p38s too - bet they really shine in the pac in '42
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  4. #34
    S!

    This kinda sums up the condition of many of the p39's:

    "Everything was in short supply - parts, fuel, food, etc. but we managed to fly those old P-39 airplanes into the ground. We could barely get to 20,000 feet altitude because the engines were way beyond change time."

    It is interesting what this P39 pilot said about the P47:

    What a thrill to get in that big Republic monster after struggling with the Airacobra. Whenever I entered the area over the Japanese bases in a P-47 I was always above 20,000 feet, never to give away the altitude advantage again.

    "The Tony would have overwhelmed our P-39s, but it was no match for the P-47. Later on when we were up against the Japanese Frank and Georges, which had radial engines, it was an even fight. "





    ___
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  5. #35
    Excellent posting 609IAP_Kahuna!
    Thank's
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  6. #36
    LEBillfish's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mar 2003
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    Frankly that helps recount the only part of the war I'm reading up on as I started flying online as
    <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Taii Ktu*78th*Sentai</span> of the <span class="ev_code_RED">78th HikoSentai, 14th Hikodan, 4th Kokugun</span>
    flying Ki61 Sentoki and later when planes were lacking left behind Ki43 Sentoki.

    Many are complaining how "dull" PF is due to their is nothing to do except take off from a carrier, fight, then land back on it or bomb ships.

    How sad, the sea battles were to position to take the land, the land battle everything. If you start reading up on PNG/and all around it(Papua New Guinea) you soon start to discover virtually ALL Japanese types of planes fought there that we have and virtually All American and British planes.



    It's the war around that area that is so diverse, just as much as any European Theatre or Eastern Front battles if not more so (due to sea battles) that I have absolutly no concept of how anyone could become "bored".

    Best coops I've flown of late have been Ki61/43/Am6 vs P38/39/40/400/47 and all the associated bombers and ground attack planes. The P39/400 vital to the realism and just like anything if flown right deadly.

    p.s. No joke, when AEP came out or whatever patch it was my first kill, first time flying a J8 was a P80.....Guess who was flying their plane right
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  7. #37
    P-39 is probably too good here. From descriptions, about all it could do better than a Zero, early war, was outdive it. Initial tactics and a lack of combat experience probably got a good number of P-39 pilots killed too. Japanese had been weening themselves in China.

    Anyway, I like both sides of the matchup in the game. I've got a few "Quick Missions" set up for both sides. An early war df server with (only) P-39s (plus P-40s, etc) vs. Zeros (and Ki-43s), limited to '41 or '42, would be a fun time.

    Papa_K
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