Member
today has marked the 65th anniversary of the battle of britain, but something i often think about is what would of happened if operation sealion went ahead and succeded?
firstly, would the british government have dissolved along with the armies, or, would britians' government become another 'government in exile' and continued the fight in north africa?
secondly, d-day, would the americans in 1942 concentrate on japan instead of the nazis, or would they attempt an invasion at another location (churchill saw the threat posed by the soviets and wanted the original invasion to be around greece to limit the amount of land the soviets could gain)? but with the possibility of britain being out of the war they would have little if no influence (though that case can be argued with britain in the war).
i know this question cant have a definate answer as it is a 'what if' scenario, but thanks ahead for any input or thoughts on the matter.
Senior Member
I think that :
Britains government would have retreated to America, though i personally think Churchill would have stayed till the last. Untill he was forced to surrender.
There would have been no relocation to North Africa as that would have been a lost cause with the fall of Britain.
Most likely the Royal Navy would have sailed to America, as the Americans had been asking this earlier in the war. Wanting the Royal Navy to move to American waters to stop Germany getting hold of the ships.
D-Day would never have happened, having been planned and executed by the British. Even had America been able to plan it there was no way for it to happen because of the logistics of such a raid. Also the results of landings on the American beaches show what results an American only landing could have had. Attacks on Mainland Europe were from North Africa and Great Britain, both these bases have been lost in our hypothetical situation.
Russia would have collapsed and America would have faced Japan alone, without all the advances that Britain discovered and gave her and without British help. No blooding of the raw American soldiers in North Africa.
Germany would have no need to Declare war on America, though maybe they still would as they did to back Japan.
I said this once before i think you would probably face a situation of the world now being made up of America and Germany facing each other across the Atlantic. A different type of Cold war, Germany ruling all of Europe and Russia, a Nazi Europe. America isolated, last bastion of Democracy.
I wonder if it would have been a similar cold war to the one with Russia, i doubt Europe under Nazis would have had the same Economic problems which brought the USSR to its knees. So more then likely although many think maybe Nazis would have been a lesser evil to live under then the Communists, perhaps the stand off would have had a much longer life!
Interesting stuff! All that said it was never going to happen when you look at the "fleet" Germany was going to use to invade, the preperation and equipment they had and the domination of British Air and Sea power. But its an interesting what if!
Member
good point on russia, i hadnt thought about that, without the regular supplies coming from the UK all they would of had was lots of food and a lack of equipment. and im not too sure what supplies were coming from america, il look into that.
i also heard a while ago that germany was producing bombers that had massive ranges (aswel as the V2), enough to cross the atlantic, but i dont have a source for that so il look into it. so there is the possibilty that america would have been forced into a war with the germans rather than a cold war
Senior Member
Member
nice links Messervy. (wow. Me P. series, 4 engines and 2 jet engines, unique)
Presidential statement to Congress on Lend-Lease:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450604a.html
massive amount of supplies, though im still looking for an actual breakdown of what exactly went to russia, not just a $ value. i did read that 45,000 trucks were sent to russia which massivly improved the reds mobility, wether the supplies from the USA were enough alone to support the russians war effort is alot harder to figure out!
Senior Member
WOw nice!
You just reminded me of some more things. No Britain means no bombing of Nazi Europe which means lots of progress with the super weapons. No Britain means no jet engines or decent engines for later american planes to compete with the German jets.
Its getting worse for the allies! Thanks God for Hurricanes and Spitfires.
Member
Guess this one of the last WW2 anniversaries BoB veterans can celebrate.
However...
I did read an interview with a British WW1 vet the other day. He's 108 1/2 years old and is the only surviving WW1 vet to have seen action in all 4 years of the war (began Marne 1914, survived several gassings too). I was amazed. Totally sane and sarcastic to boot to a patronising interviewer too.
Can't imagine he'll be with us much longer
Member
There have been many popular books based on this alternate history theme. My 2 personal favorites are:Originally posted by WirMussen:
today has marked the 65th anniversary of the battle of britain, but something i often think about is what would of happened if operation sealion went ahead and succeded?
SS-GB by Len Deighton (set in the UK), and;
The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. **** (set in the USA)
Edit: My God! If Philip K. D-i-c-k's name has been censored... then so is my REAL NAME! Fascists!
Senior Member
Don't forget;Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
Its getting worse for the allies! Thanks God for Hurricanes and Spitfires.
The brave and the "Few" - pilots like Australians, New Zealanders, Canadaians, Poles, Czechs, Free French, Isreali, Americans and many more...
The breaking of Luftwaffe Enigma messages (known as Ultra), as Fighter Command knew what the targets were for upcoming raids.
Radar and Fighter Command's Chain of Command system of raid warnings and the scramble system - pionered by HT Dowding commander od Fighter Command.
RAF Bomber Command attacking Berlin which led to Hitler's 1st major mistake - bombing London! The switch in bombing target that helped take the pressure of Fighter Command's airfields which were close to breaking point.
The English Channel - The fact that the battle was played out over British soil - the RAF had the ability to save pilots from drowning or capture - unlike many Luftwaffe pilots who ran out of fuel over the channel!
The numbers game - the RAF were able to fool Luftwaffe command about the attrition rate when in fact the Fighter Command was quite close to collapse! - if only they had known.
The list is endless really - but some of the points I have made are forgotten - and yes the Spitfire and the Hurricane were fine planes but they had to be flown by brave and very, very tired pilots!
Senior Member
