1. #1
    Tater-SW-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    It has been said that delayed fuses still do not work vs ships. I realize that PF isn't a ship sim, and additional ship simulation isn't going to happen.

    How about this, instead.

    Make a new loadout for the planes that usually skip bombed. So you'd see "4x500, 6x500, 4xskip bomb, 1xtorpedo" (or whatever). The "skip bomb" loadout would be otherwise normal 500lb bombs.

    The "skip bomb" would damage a ship at the exact same level as a normal 500lb bomb, but would have a greatly reduced blast range vs aircraft. That way you could drop, and fly right over the ship as the bomb blew up. Not realistic, but in real life you WOULD fly over the ship, and the bomb would blow 4-5 seconds after you passed. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

    Give it some blast, just less to make it less exact a thing (right now in AEP, I can make the glass nosed B-25s skip bomb, but if they drop even a little too close, they get blown to bits because of the lack of delay).

    tater
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  2. #2
    Bump !!!

    Bump bump bump !!!
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  3. #3
    Tater-SW-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    I was thinking:
    Damage to ship = 500lb bomb
    Blast effect = 100lb bomb (or maybe less, like a 30kg)

    Enough to keep you from doing unrealistically low attacks, but not punish a historical attack profile.

    tater
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  4. #4
    WOLFMondo's Avatar Senior Member
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    A bomb thats sunk after a few seconds would act like a depth charge. Imagine a 1000lbs depth charge go off right under the hull of a ship, wouldn't be pretty.

    The 9250lbs bouncing bomb which acts like a depth charge is enough to blow a hole in a 140ft thick dam if thats anything to go by. A Grandslam from 40,000 ft has the same destructive power as that vs a dam. Just something to go by I guess.
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  5. #5
    Tater-SW-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    The standard fusing for the 5th AF was 4.5 seconds for skip bombs from what I can tell. The reccomended plane spacing for such attack was 9-11 seconds for this reason.


    tater
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  6. #6
    Tater-SW-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    The most typical target for skip bombing was merchant shipping, not warships. the "frigates" you see in pictures are probably sub chasers (IJN didn't have a frigate class). These are small ships, 1000 tons and under.

    Some online refs:

    http://www.enter.net/~rocketeer/13thtactics5.html
    From an orientation guide...
    "f. In skip bombing with regular GP bombs a 4/5 sec. fuse is normally used. This requires the flight or flights to bomb line abreast or with an extended interval to prevent flying through bomb bursts from previous drops."

    http://www.wisconsinstories.org/worl...=6682&cid=4256
    "O'Dair: OK. You go down, pretty low to the water; you're probably within 30 or 40 feet of the water. And you drop your bomb, and the bomb actually skips across the water because of the forward velocity. And what you have to do is put about a four-and-a-half-second delay fuse in that because you don't want the bomb going off under you. And you have to be careful if you go after an empty ship, because that bomb could go in one side and right out the other. Because, see, ships usually only have a quarter-inch plate. And an empty ship, you'd go right through the hull with that, into one side and out the other. And it could go off underneath you. So you'd try to pull up, soon as you release, you try to pull up and get away; bank away from it."

    http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...89/westen.html
    "Practicing against a ship hulk near Port Moresby, his pilots became adept at low-altitude skip bombing, using five-second fuzes for safe escape. (Although skip bombing was originally devised for B-17s, B-25s and A-20s took over this role because of their better maneuverability.)15 Kenney authorized installation of eight fixed, forward-firing .50-caliber machine guns in B-25 "commerce raiders," as well."

    http://www.afa.org/magazine/Aug1996/0896victory.asp
    "Kenney recalled: "It looked as though there might be something in dropping a bomb with a five-second-delay fuze from level flight at an altitude of about fifty feet and a few hundred feet away from a vessel, with the idea of having the bomb skip along the water until it bumped into the side of the ship. In the few seconds remaining, the bomb should sink just about far enough so that when it went off it would blow the bottom out of the ship. In the meantime, the airplane would have hurdled the enemy vessel and would get far enough away so that it would not be vulnerable to the explosion.""

    This last bit is interesting. I think it implies that the fuse goes off from hitting the water itself, and the delay includes the skipping time. Not sure about this. I do know they prefered wide spacing in line astern attacks so the next plane wouldn't get a bomb in the face (I have pictures of mistakes in this).

    tater


    OTOH, General Kenney claims instantaneous fuses were used after trying delays for a while in his book (though it has a feww odd claims as well).
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  7. #7
    Have recently read a book describing RAF Blenhim bombers anti ship missions, they used an 11 second delay.
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  8. #8
    Just to add some more grist to the mill, a few definitions:

    Arming delay: the delay between the bomb being released, and it becoming "live". Bombs impacting before the end of the arming delay will be duds (this is done to ensure safe-escape for the bomber by avoiding detonation following a release below minimum release altitude, or from the bombs clunking into each other under the bomber.) This is not currently available in Il-2/FB/AEP. The bomb is armed at release (sporty!)

    Functional delay: The delay between impact and weapon detonation. This is the delay we currently have in Il-2/FB/AEP (and PF as far as I know.) IRL, we use this to determine how far the bomb will bury itself before detonating. Useful for bridges, bunkers, bridge abuttments, and earthen dams.

    Timer delay: A simple timer that detonates the bomb at a set time after release, regardless of whether the bomb has hit anything, or hit many things. Most similar to a hand-grenade fuse. I've never dropped something like this, but it sounds like what Tater's sources are referring to.

    With the timing delay, if the bomb lodged in the ship, bad news for the ship. If it broke up, or went off low-order (the explosive self-detonated due to impact, instead of the fuse), it was the ship's lucky day. If it bounced, and sank under the ship, still bad news. Any hydrodynamicists out there can calculate the bomb drop distance in water, but figuring 2-3 seconds of skipping, it won't be far. Some torpedoes with similar sized warheads were designed to travel under the target ship and detonate (with varying degrees of success.) They were sometimes refered to as "keel-busters". Tater's suggestions sound like a good compromise, provided the code will support it.

    Tater, thanks for the references, and sorry we missed out on the airshow season this year. I wanted to get to the CAF show at Midland, but the cost of our recent greyhound adoption put the kabosh on that. There should be something local in the spring though. Anybody in Albuquerque stocking PF yet?
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  9. #9
    Tater-SW-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Not that I've found. And I've looked. Actually, they have it at Best Buy in Farmington according to their web page, lol. A bit of a drive, heheh.

    tater
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  10. #10
    Rog, thanks. If you're looking for me, I'll be the one with the glazed look in my eyes, salivating next to my mailbox waiting for a package from Magnum PC. Be kind and put an umbrella over me if it starts raining, would you?
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