1. #1
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,671
    Interesting, but numbers, even numbers of poor-shooters, mattered. On 15 Sept 1940, when Bader's Duxford Wing sledgehammer, as unwieldy as it was, finally connected with a German raid, the German bombers broke, and scattered like terrified rabbits all over Kent. Not many were shot down, but the huge raid on London was repelled.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=S...10/30/npilots130.xml
    Share this post

  2. #2
    If I had been sat in typical German BoB bomber,with a glass nose,having just been told that there were only a couple of British fighters left, then you look out and see a load of 8 gun Spitfires and Hurri's bearing down on you,I expect that I would have lost interest in bombing anything as well!
    Share this post

  3. #3
    I found the entire article rather dimwitted.Although I found some of the comments spot on.
    Share this post

  4. #4
    ploughman's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,503
    Crikey, NEW research? I thought the n00bs in Spits thing dated from the battle, if not shortly after the war. Even in the 1969 film the two n00bs who join Sailor Malan's squadron had less than ten hours on Spits and both had no tactical training. And, of course the inefficiency for purpose of the .303 armament was known at the time and was corrected.

    As to being heroic, I think rising to fight a superior foe knowing you're unprepared and likely to perish but still doing it anyway is about as heroic as it gets.

    I take it this pr1ck is selling a book?
    Share this post

  5. #5
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,671
    What the author missed was that, even in well-trained air forces, only a small number of pilots do the bulk of the damage. The rest are spear carriers.
    Share this post

  6. #6
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,671
    P.S. I can't find anything on the guy unless he is a (1) computer prof in Edinburgh, (2) physics prof in Canada, or (3) a childrens' book author. Probably just another grenade thrower hoping to make payments on his house by harpooning the biggest sacred cow he could find.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,989
    Leit, 56th FG, Zemke's Wolfpack, counts 38 Aces.

    Look down about middle of the page.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,671
    Well, yeah, Gunz, but official AAF "scores" are not remotely reliable, a-and what of it? Compared to the number of men who passed through the 56th between 1943 and 1945, the big scorers are a small fraction of the total.
    Share this post

  9. #9
    zardozid's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,190
    Crikey, NEW research? I thought the n00bs in Spits thing dated from the battle, if not shortly after the war. Even in the 1969 film the two n00bs who join Sailor Malan's squadron had less than ten hours on Spits and both had no tactical training. And, of course the inefficiency for purpose of the .303 armament was known at the time and was corrected.

    As to being heroic, I think rising to fight a superior foe knowing you're unprepared and likely to perish but still doing it anyway is about as heroic as it gets.

    I take it this pr1ck is selling a book?



    I might be remembering wrong,but...didn't Dowding himself imply that the number of German aircraft downed may have been inaccurate?
    Share this post

  10. #10
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    11,671
    Dowding was well aware Fighter Command claims were way off, but he realized the policy of liberally granting confirmations raised morale, and he did nothing to end it. Of course, intelligence told the true story; Ultra was reading the Luftwaffe's signals traffic, so those at the top knew the true state of the German order of battle.
    Share this post