1. #11
    Originally posted by Stiletto-:

    If you wish to get into furballs and also, not have the plane "flip out" on you.
    No... it's not a desire to get into furballs per se, it was an observation on how the P-51 handled when ridden hard and put away wet.

    I'm coming from Falcon 4, an F-16 sim, so there is a huge learning curve in proper techniques. My biggest problem is thinking everything corners like an F-16.

    Tis me, nothing else.
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  2. #12
    Change your HARDWARE-INPUT to all 100s for PITCH,ROLL and YAW and get back to me about how the P-51 sucked and this surely would change the way you feel about that plane.

    With all 100 inputs she would circle forever without stall below 280kph with combat flaps.

    The others are correct that you are pushing her to the limit of stall but it could also be your INPUT settings. A mustang LIKES and WANTS to be fast and she MISBEHAVES if you fly her slow specially with default INPUT settings.
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  3. #13
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Segwin:
    Do I suck at this sim.

    I'm no stranger to flight sims or dog fighting but I'm ready to put my foot through my nice LCD monitor (cost to much to replace though).

    Insert your favorite cuss word here *....* Just venting I guess....

    BTW, does the P-51 really fly that bad? If you pull it just past that point, in a corner, it freaks out like someone cut all the control cables. It's hard to believe that we (the Americans) built a plane so bad (and I really like the looks of it too).

    This sim gets me angry enough to get really good at it and then take it off my hard drive in revenge.
    It flies about as good as the pilot. And yes, it had snap-nasty departure behaviour in the 'right' conditions
    -- so did the FW190.
    You have to consider the P-51 IRL couldn't run full power while stopped, it would flip itself over according to the pilots.
    How does that translate to when you're close to stall and running full power? The words 'turn turtle' have been used.
    First time that happened to me in IL2 when AEP came out I knew they were doing something right and I did something wrong.

    You want to ride Ole Dobbin then you're not going to win the Kentucky Derby. Thoroughbreds are dangerous as well as fast.
    A tame plane will not maneuver (roll fast, pitch easily = change the lift vector quickly) as well as something less stable,
    it's that simple.
    The thing about Ace Pilots is that they make it look easy, kind of like Olympics contestants. Watch them and do you think
    that you can just go downhill skiing without ever having skied before? When you are wrapped around a tree waiting for help
    will you be cursing the maker of the skis you used? My skis don't turn well enough, I've seen what they can do IRL?

    No, really, there is a thread linking an article on what it takes to become a warbird pilot, the stages of training.
    A qualified General Aviation Pilot for Cessnas and the like would be in trouble if just jump into a P-51 and fly regular.
    Even to fly a Spitfire such as we have, first is hours in a Tiger Moth and then to the Spitfire for more hours and still
    they don't take the plane near full capability because they simply did not dare, those boys with less than 10 hours in
    type who went into battle didn't push the edge let alone ride over it.
    That's why you'll find quotes from Germans in 109's who turned inside of Spitfires. They did. They didn't know who was
    flying the Spitfire though. It wasn't only plane vs plane as some would suggest or even insist. The most important quote
    about aerial combat I know is "It's the PILOT not the PLANE.".
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  4. #14
    DKoor's Avatar Banned
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    American fighter planes such is P-47 or P-51 are one of the most powerful airplanes in this simulation.
    To illustrate this, download some of these tracks, put them in your records folder (under main game folder) and run them so you will see for yourself.

    P-51 vs 4 German ace FW-190 Ai on realistic settings, coop
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/3e9e.../DKoor51D-4x190A-408

    Test of the .50cal vs hard targets, German Focke Wulfs
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/0de7...48839/Power-of-50cal

    Online, player gets few kills (ETO)
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/3da0...in32P51D-2xEA-WC-402

    Solo P-51 vs 6 ace Japanese planes, realistic settings, almost 1 hour of offline fight
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/edce...Koor51D-vs-6xJPN-408
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  5. #15
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Segwin:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stiletto-:

    If you wish to get into furballs and also, not have the plane "flip out" on you.
    No... it's not a desire to get into furballs per se, it was an observation on how the P-51 handled when ridden hard and put away wet.

    I'm coming from Falcon 4, an F-16 sim, so there is a huge learning curve in proper techniques. My biggest problem is thinking everything corners like an F-16.

    Tis me, nothing else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh. Torque. P-factor. Propwash. Wing and rudder twist. LOW power loading.
    OTOH much lower stall speeds.

    Your lift vector -can- be the most potent force at your disposal if you keep your speed up.
    At twice Reference Stall you can pull 4G's though you'll need to lose alt to hold it.
    At 2.5x Stall you can black out if you do hold it.

    The Corner Speed that matters now is Sustained Corner, around 240-250mph in most late war birds.
    You'll have enough roll and lift to change direction the best right around there.

    Work the vertical! Ride like a rollercoaster. Yoyos, rolling scissors, same basic moves just different rhythms and speeds.

    The other big difference to jets is that jets have constant thrust available while props have constant power available.
    Power = Thrust x Speed.
    The faster you go in a jet, the more power you have. The faster you go in a prop, the less thrust you have.

    Whole new ballgame in props.

    Or you could fly the 262 or other IL2 jets, which you may like once you learn to not catch them on fire!
    Well, those primitive engines you just have to be really slowwww on the throttle esp in the earliest jets like the 262.

    There lots of learning curve for the bucks you spent on the game, be sure!
    Look at it this way, no more MFD's. No more Master Warning panels. Less instruments and gimmicks to remember.
    And if we're real good, the Rise of Flight WWI sim will be out "soon" with even less doodads to deal with!
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  6. #16
    Your reaction was like mine when I started Segwin. The planes would snap roll and flip over on me and **** me off bad. I wanted to throw my joystick thru the dam wall. But then I found that I had to go to the input settings and reduce them. Just dont quit and you will get good at flying these planes.
    Go to this and adjust the pitch:
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  7. #17
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    RE: The Mustangs handling and stall characteristics...seems to match with reality.

    Read this thread (its currently just a few spots down): http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/7651002447
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  8. #18
    HayateAce's Avatar Banned
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    Finally, it's only a game, so don't try to believe that the IL2 P51 is anything like the real bird.

    The P51 dominated the the 109/190 in the skies over Europe, and the historical records bears that out time and again. The Mustang will never be equaled in terms of achievement and impact on the outcome of a war.

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  9. #19
    Buzzsaw-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Segwin:
    Do I suck at this sim.

    I'm no stranger to flight sims or dog fighting but I'm ready to put my foot through my nice LCD monitor (cost to much to replace though).

    Insert your favorite cuss word here *....* Just venting I guess....

    BTW, does the P-51 really fly that bad? If you pull it just past that point, in a corner, it freaks out like someone cut all the control cables. It's hard to believe that we (the Americans) built a plane so bad (and I really like the looks of it too).

    This sim gets me angry enough to get really good at it and then take it off my hard drive in revenge.
    Salute Segwin

    Fly more, practice more, join a Squadron and you will get better.

    However, you are correct, the Mustang is modelled poorly in general.

    If you want to get a better perspective on the Mustang, try flying the Mustang III, it has performance similar to the real thing. (although it still has the overdone stall and wing weakness)
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  10. #20
    Buzzsaw-'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    RE: The Mustangs handling and stall characteristics...seems to match with reality.

    Read this thread (its currently just a few spots down): http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/7651002447
    Yeah read that thread.... RIGHT TO THE BOTTOM.

    Then you will see a WARTIME evaluation of a properly functioning Mustang running at full power and turning at max. G's.

    As far as the test of 60 year old planes running less than max boost and tested at low G's, I think you can discount it.
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