1. #1
    I've noticed that if I am lucky (or skillful!) and hit, say an He111 in a head on pass I often seem to do catastrophic damage in my yak 3p or lagg7 (3 cannon versions) with just he one pass. I also seem to do better in attacks from the rear if my speed is up to around 300 mph plus. Is this because in a head on attack the speed of the shells and therefore the impact is much greater because the target is flying towards me, and this increased impact speed does more damage, or does speed have nothing to do with it when you are firing explosive shells? If there is a difference relating to speed, is this , as I suspect it is, fully modelled in game?
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  2. #2
    Jaws2002's Avatar Senior Member
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    This things are modeled in game but there are other reasons for that.
    Usually at higher speed your plane is more stable so you'll get more concentrated fire in a small area. Also in a headon with something like a He111 your shells won't have to go throug the armor that usually protects the plane from rear attack, but will hit directly the exposed crew and vital systems.
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  3. #3
    I am not really sure, as the collision model in Il2 is very old, and only records if one thing touches another, not how fast they hit or with how much force.
    Are the bullets calculated differently? I do know that the bullets slowing down after they are fired is modeled. So a bullet with a speed of 750M/sec at the muzzle is going to be less after traveling 500 meters.
    Please someone answer this for certain. If the bullets are modeled to slow down after being fired, will the damage be less at an increased range?
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  4. #4
    Jaws2002's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Choctaw111:

    Please someone answer this for certain. If the bullets are modeled to slow down after being fired, will the damage be less at an increased range?

    Yes, but this only works for the kinetic energy part of the damage. If you are shooting HE shells the damage done by explosive content will remain the same. That's why with MG armed planes you get better results shooting at close range.
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  5. #5
    Essah__'s Avatar Senior Member
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    now i dont know if its only something you experience with Heinkel 111's but it would be logical if it was since the H6 model has a 20mm cannon in the nose rather than a light machine gun.

    a 20mm round hitting you from the front is very very damaging.
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  6. #6
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Even from the start IL2 used relative velocity of shot and target, angle of impact and shot mass.
    When you hit, what is inside the plane is modeled. A nose gear will absorb hits on it, en engine, tail structure, etc.
    Also Russian guns did often have higher to much higher rate of fire than others, sometimes +50% and more higher.
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  7. #7
    Originally posted by Choctaw111:
    I am not really sure, as the collision model in Il2 is very old, and only records if one thing touches another, not how fast they hit or with how much force.
    Are the bullets calculated differently? I do know that the bullets slowing down after they are fired is modeled. So a bullet with a speed of 750M/sec at the muzzle is going to be less after traveling 500 meters.
    Please someone answer this for certain. If the bullets are modeled to slow down after being fired, will the damage be less at an increased range?
    Il2 is much better than you think, everything work as it should.

    You will achieve better results if you shoot from close range. Of course that's not too important if you are shooting 30mm HE rounds.

    FC
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  8. #8
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    It works better than others but still some things to be done when better hardware is available.
    1) even more 3D parts or ability of shots to pierce one part and go to the next without destroying the first first
    2) internal deflection of hits not always in a straight line (may be years for that one!)
    3) more detailed time-failure modes of parts, esp like engine radiators
    4) more detailed structure-failure due to damage + stress
    5) better graphic to modeled damage as we have been shown for SOW means already OTW
    6) my wishlist item, some day, internal fires/explosion from electrical damage/fuel leaked inside the airframe like in the 1968 BoB movie

    Still compare this to hit boxes and hit bubbles from before IL2.
    It's amazing the DM they packed into this now-old engine, once improved (FB 3D models are a step better than IL2 original).
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  9. #9
    Waldo.Pepper's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Jaws2002:
    Yes, but this only works for the kinetic energy part of the damage. If you are shooting HE shells the damage done by explosive content will remain the same.
    Sorry but I disagree with this. Even when firing a mine shell for example it is better to be going as fast as you can. They will do more damage. This is because they will travel further into the target aircraft before detonating. This was borne out also by the experience of the Luftwaffe also by the war. I believe this is modeled.

    To go back and answer the topic originators question for a moment.

    Originally posted by deskpilot:
    Is this because in a head on attack the speed of the shells and therefore the impact is much greater because the target is flying towards me, and this increased impact speed does more damage ...
    Yes definitely. It is even mentioned in the manual for the game. (manual.pdf in your installation directory).

    From page 15.



    In my opinion (and experience)
    You always do more damage -

    When flying fast.
    When firing at extremely close range, as your bullets are at higher velocity. (As close as you can get!!)
    When your target and your plane are closing. (As this effectively doubles your speed).
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  10. #10
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    I was in Newark, Delaware when a .22 bullet that missed a bird on a mailbox traveled over 1/2 mile and killed a tennis player
    that had jumped for a shot. Went through skin and the side of his skull. I've fired many military cartridges and none of
    those (no pistols) would be stopped by skin at any 500 meters. I dunno who wrote that doc but they need to get out and try
    things a bit more.

    Respect even the small arms and be careful where you point them! It is paramount to firearms safety.
    Perhaps in Russia they don't let civilians have rifles?
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