Wat you al think ?
Are veterans right
have a look here
Major Kozhemyako, Soviet fighter ace:
"BF109 was very good, very high scale fighter plane. If was superior to our Yaks in speed and vertical combat. It wasn`t 100% superiority, but still. Very dynamic plane. I`ll be honest with you, it was my dream during my war years, to have a plane like this. Fast and superior on vertical, but that didn`t happen.
Messer had one extremely positive thing, it was able to be successful fight Yak`s at 2000m and Aircobras at 6000m. This is truly unique ability and valuable. Of course, here Yak and P-39 were inferior. As far as combat on different altitudes, BF109 was universal, like La-5.
Me109 was exceptional in turning combat. If there is a fighter plane built for turning combat , it has to be Messer! Speedy, maneuverable,(especially in vertical) and extremely dynamic. I can`t tell about all other things, but taking under consideration what i said above, Messerschmitt was ideal for dogfight. But for some reason majority of german pilots didn`t like turn fight, till this day i don`t know why.
I don`t know what was stopping them, but it`s definitely not the plane. I know that for a fact. I remember battle of Kursk where german aces were starting "roller-coaster" rides where our heads were about to come off from rotation. No, seriously... Is it true it`s a common thing now that Messer wasn`t maneuverable?
Interviewer: Yes.
Heh.. Why would people come up with something like this... It was maneuverable...by god it was."
Erwin Leykauf, German fighter pilot, 33 victories:
"The Bf 109s also had leading edge slats. When the 109 was flown, advertently or inadvertently, too slow, the slats shot forward out of the wing, sometimes with a loud bang which could be heard above the noise of the engine. Many times the slats coming out frightenened young pilots when they flew the Bf 109 for the first time in combat. One often flew near the stalling speed in combat, not only when flying straight and level but especially when turning and climbing. Sometimes the slats would suddenly fly out with a bang as if one had been hit, especially when one had throttled back to bank steeply. Indeed many fresh young pilots thought they were pulling very tight turns even when the slats were still closed against the wing. For us, the more experienced pilots, real manoeuvring only started when the slats were out. For this reason it is possible to find pilots from that period (1940) who will tell you that the Spitfire turned better than the Bf 109. That is not true. I myself had many dogfights with Spitfires and I could always out-turn them.
One had to enter the turn correctly, then open up the engine. It was a matter of feel. When one noticed the speed becoming critical - the aircraft vibrated - one had to ease up a bit, then pull back again, so that in plan the best turn would have looked like an egg or a horizontal ellipse rather than a circle. In this way one could out-turn the Spitfire - and I shot down six of them doing it."
Walter Wolfrum, German fighter ace. 137 victories.
"Unexperienced pilots hesitated to turn tight, bacause the plane shook violently when the slats deployed. I realised, though, that because of the slats the plane's stalling characteristics were much better than in comparable Allied planes that I got to fly. Even though you may doubt it, I knew the Bf109 could manouver better in a turnfight than LaGG, Yak or even Spitfire."
And some additional facts about the 109:
- The top 3 aces (of any conflict) all flew 109's exclusively. Of the 20 top aces (of any conflict) 12 flew 109's exclusively.
- Me-109 was credited with shooting down more enemy aircraft and producing more aces than any single fighter in the annals of aerial warfare.
Plan_D British test-pilots did exactly the same as novice LW pilots did when trying to turn the 109 ! They eased off the turn as soon as the slats popped out, and wouldnt go any further.
The british even verify this themselves in many tests:
"the Bf.109G being embarrassed by its slots opening near the stall. "
British test-pilots would almost s**t their pants when the 109's slats deployed, and would think "Hell no !" and then drop the maneuver entirely. That is why these test-results are so inaccurate.
More 109 pilot quotes:
Herbert Kaiser, German fighter ace. 68 victories:
"Personally, I met RAF over Dunkirk. During this battle not a single Spitfire or Hurricane turned tighter than my plane. In the desert there were only a few Spitfires, and we were afraid of those because of their reputation from the Battle of Britain. But after we shot a couple of them down, our confusion was gone."
Helmut Lipfert, German fighter ace. 203 victories:
"I cast a quik glance at the machine and then climbed up after the other enemy aircraft. ****, he could turn! Finally I was sitting behind him. I turned so tightly that condensation trails formed behind both wingtips and my Me shuddered on the verge of a stall more than once. Fortunately, the 109 turned extremely well.
The whole air battle took place at a very low altitude. I sat behind the Russian like a shadow, and now and then I succeeded in hitting him.......
He (Russian pilot) turned sharply, leaving a heavy vapor trail, and dove away towards the northeast.......... I cut him off and closed in at high speed. My airspeed indicator was showing more than 750 km/h.
I opened fire rather too soon, but he didn't change direction, instead he put his nose down briefly so that I was suddenly a level higher than he was. I put my nose down as well, but as I was about to fire he pulled up again, and this time I ended up below him."
Interesting to read this.
Well, maybe the Messer is a real good turnfighter, but only if the violinist knows how to play his instrument. The unexperienced pilots and the superior enemy number(BnZ is better with to much opponents) forced the commonality to have the picture of the 109, that it can`t turn.
But I think the 109 is ok, still able to turn for a short time. Good enough to achieve kills in IL2![]()
There are many accounts you don't show that don't paint the 109 as those.
Blow them off as incorrect.
Good thing the planes are not modelled by stories but rather original test documents.
It is up to the player to find out how to fly the models right. All the time for years
have the best sims pulled away from bank and yank, one formula fits all FM's but this
series has been raising the bar more every time.
Read that first quote again and ask yourself if he is speaking of flat turn combat.
I rather think it is turning just fine in PF. Its hard to choose from Spitfire to 109. Spitfire turns a bit better at high speeds...109 at slower speeds. Sounds right either way.Originally posted by Jaws2002:
So is it not turning enough in PF?
Honestly how much better do you want it to turn?
I'm allways shocked when I change from FW-190 to 109.