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Banned
There's as interestiing discussion in the Pacific Fighters forum about the relative dive and high-speed roll performance of the early Zeros and the Wildcat. I won't repeat all the figures, but the observations suggest that in the game:
1. The Wildcat breaks up at too low a speed.
2. The roll rate of the Zero is too high at high dive speeds (reports speak of the control surfaces becoming almost immovable above ~ 300 mph).
A quick test in the game shows that the Zero can roll surprisingly well up to the point that it breaks up, and that the Wildcat never gains a real advantage in control authority over the Zero. Further, the Wildcat (supposedly a very strong aircraft) breaks up at only marginally higher speeds than the Zero. In short, the Wildcat gains almost no advantage by diving away from a Zero.
Does anybody have any hard facts to support these conculsions? (I'm thinking of you, Skychimp!)
Regards,
RocketDog.
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Senior Member
RocketDog,
Actually what my online tests showed was that 1) the Zero dove faster than the wildcat, 2)the Wildcat went into the hard buffet and broke up sooner than the Zero and 3)The Zero lost no control authority that was discernable above 250 Mph.
250 Mph is the number generally quoted by Sakai and others as the departure point in controlability. When I say "discernable" in regards to roll rate and elavator authority I'm talking about in regards to the Wildcat. Several of our tests involved diving up to 350Mph and then testing roll rate etc. In these test the Zero easily kept up with the Wildcat.
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Member
seems it has been changed with 3.02
before patchs, the wildcat, in game, could shake the zero rather easily, since it couldn't match the roll responsiveness of the grumman at higher speeds. I flew it tonight and, bascally, I couldn't do anything againsta zeke. it's superior in turning at any speed (I'd expect it to be quite heavy above 500kph) and it rolls quite well even above 600
even in a corsair (F4U-1A) I had hard time getting away from it (only prolonged dive followed by straight escape allowed me to gain some separation, it could match any manouver at any speed)
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Senior Member
Bump for a fix, I agree.
tater
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Senior Member
All around the 3.0 FMs seemed to be the best. I'm not sure what they were after in 3.01, but it was apparently an over correction, and it eased up a bit (but not enough in some cases) in 3.02. :/
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Senior Member
F4F-3s and F4F-4s didn't have dive speed limitations.
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Senior Member
I flew a Zero last night in a 3.01 game. Get above 250-300 Km/h and the roll rate is drastically reduced. Dunno what this translates to in mph.
Dunno about 3.02 as I refuse to use anything beta.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Loki-PF:
RocketDog,
Actually what my online tests showed was that 1) the Zero dove faster than the wildcat, 2)the Wildcat went into the hard buffet and broke up sooner than the Zero and 3)The Zero lost no control authority that was discernable above 250 Mph.
250 Mph is the number generally quoted by Sakai and others as the departure point in controlability. When I say "discernable" in regards to roll rate and elavator authority I'm talking about in regards to the Wildcat. Several of our tests involved diving up to 350Mph and then testing roll rate etc. In these test the Zero easily kept up with the Wildcat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
using PF 3.02 (every patch so far is a beta version of the game
)
i reached
740km/h IAS in a F4F-4
660km/h IAS in a A6M2-21
in a dive till the first parts fall away , without trying to recover from the dive.
i realy wouldnt call that the Model21 has a higher max Divespeed than the F4F-4.
if the difference is big enough , dodnt know.
but keepin in mind Skychimps words here and that a Ki-61 can dive till 850km/h IAS .
the Wildcat speed looks like realy to low.
and yes, strange enough the Model21 rolls better at 600 than at 450km/h IAS ?!?!?!
but hopefully after fixing the performances of this important Duo the Wildcat cant outrun the Model21 in horizontal speed again , like in PF 3.0
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Senior Member
The wildcat couldn't outrun the Zero. Period. The tests in 1943 by the Americans showed that the Wildcat had better roll at high speeds, and its engine did not cut out in a negative G maneuvers. In Dive the two planes were equal. There is more to this, though. During the testing of the Hellcat, the tested Hellcat received damage from the high speed of the dive. The next trial was made witha remote controlled Hellcat, the Speed achieved was 805 kmh, when the operator in the parallel flying Wildcat commanded leveloff.
To summarize, the Wildcat is not better in the dive than a Zero. But, it can stay longer in the dive. One of the Improvements of the 3-2 type Zero over the 2-1 was the stronger skin, allowing 657 kmh dive speed. the last model used, the 5-2c had a terminal dive speed of 741 kmh. But this was the last Zero, with pilot armor, parachute
and selfsealing tanks.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
All around the 3.0 FMs seemed to be the best. I'm not sure what they were after in 3.01, but it was apparently an over correction, and it eased up a bit (but not enough in some cases) in 3.02. :/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree with you, particularly in the case of the F6F.
GR142-Pipper