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Senior Member
Where when you tick it full real you can actually use the gun? If you suggest it's real now and the "arcade" setting would be more lax, listen, I don't want to suffer some penalty in realism % because on full real it makes the deck gun far too strict (for ex.)
There's clearly a right answer to this, either it's too lenient, too lax, or just right. To be proven/argued sucessfully hopefully so it can be made correct and everyone accepts it as correct.
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Member
So exactly what's the problem with them giving us a switch? NONE.
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Senior Member
You've got to love the gun discussion...
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Senior Member
How about having a lesser realism percentage means less renoun per ton? That's a problem.
What about on 100% real servers where one would be subject to perhaps an overly strict deck gun requirement sea state uneccesarily? That's a problem.
What about bragging rights lost by playing less than 100%, when 100% actually subjects you to unreal restraints? That's a problem.
THREE.
**This assumes the game models deck/flak useage requirements in sea state too strictly. This is only a basis for argument. Satisfactory proof for too lax or to strict or just right has yet to be made.
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Member
I feel that the gun is also too restrictive... I was watching and my deck was NOT awash in 7 m/s winds/waves. I should have been able to use the gun.
BUT!!!
The gun was only useful early in the war before merchies started carrying guns themselves... The idea of outshooting a much larger, higher, dryer merchant, who many times was mounting a similar sized or larger gun, is a bit outlandish. I have no problem with the guns, especially the flak guns being manned in accordance with the decks being awash.
(Especially the flak guns which were higher and dryer anyway. Seperate conditions for the different guns!)
But the Merchies are unrealistically poor shots from a more stable platform. And the ROF of the gun should depend on weather too. In heavier weather, reload times should be terrible! (The gun loads way too fast as it is.)
A determined crew should be able to gun in poorer weather, but their effectiveness MUST suffer accordingly!
And separate conditions for tower flak positions.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frederf220:
The question is then. If the current deck gun is so successful in game and not in real life, what can be done to the simulation to make the game more resemble real life? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the best way to do it would be to change two things:
1. Make the deck gun responsive to any sort of pitching or rolling of the boat, just like the periscope is. Currently it stays as solid as a rock, which is part of the reason why we can get so much tonnage with it.
2. Make the deck gun controls very unresponsive - make it take a lot of mouse input to move the deck gun a little bit, so that it's very hard to overcome the action of the pitching and rolling of the boat, even in fairly light swells. You could also institute a delay of a split second between hitting the fire button and the shell actually firing - that would make it even less accurate.
That would solve the problem, and you could open up the deck gun and have it be useable (but not useful) in any sea condition.
Thirdly, if the devs had time and resources to devote to it, make it so that using the deck gun in anything but calm seas sometimes causes wounds and/or death to the crewmembers who are manning it. In short, make it so that the deck gun is a liability - that's the reality, so it should be so in the sim.
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Member
I can't believe that so many people are defending the ridiculous deck gun situation!
The answer is clear:
A captain should have absolute power over his boat and crew. If you happend to give a suicidal order to your sailors then so be it. It should say, "Deck gun manned." and a second later "Man overboard.", if the storm is so bad!
You don't make it impossible to man the guns. You make it very hard to aim, very hard to reload and you make it a risk of losing sailors overboard.
It really is as simple as that and some people have already hit the nail on the head on this issue.
We're not talking about hitting a target at 5km range in a storm. Sure that's next to impossible. But to say goodbye to a disabled 10,000ton tanker, because apparently it is impossible to hit from 100m away? That's just not on, a blind, one armed gunner could hit that!
Happy hunting!
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frederf220:
The question is then. If the current deck gun is so successful in game and not in real life, what can be done to the simulation to make the game more resemble real life? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the best way to do it would be to change two things:
1. Make the deck gun responsive to any sort of pitching or rolling of the boat, just like the periscope is. Currently it stays as solid as a rock, which is part of the reason why we can get so much tonnage with it.
2. Make the deck gun controls very unresponsive - make it take a lot of mouse input to move the deck gun a little bit, so that it's very hard to overcome the action of the pitching and rolling of the boat, even in fairly light swells.
That would solve the problem, and you could open up the deck gun and have it be useable (but not useful) in any sea condition.
Thirdly, if the devs had time and resources to devote to it, make it so that using the deck gun in anything but calm seas causes wounds and/or death to the crewmembers who are manning it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agree 100%
Remember we are blessed with a dynamic campaign, that includes dynamic weather, which affects your abilities to sink tonnage.
Just as the U-boat commanders of old had to deal with!
With the current wind restrictions on the deck gun, it allows us that element of dynamic variety, in each and every campaign mission.
For instance: One mission you might not have the weather to be able to use the deck/flak guns. The next mission you might be able to use them to your hearts content. Thus another factor to have to consider based on real, game world, conditions.
This is what's so realistic and immersive about this dynamic campaign. If you give the player less restrictions on Deck/Flak gun usage related to weather conditions than you also REMOVE some of the dynamicness of the game.
I like the fact that the weather limits your abilities and it changes each and every time you play. Otherwise, its's like giving us X-ray vision in storms/fog and torpedoes that work in any kind of seas.....boring if you ask me.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gabriel_cd:
We're not talking about hitting a target at 5km range in a storm. Sure that's next to impossible. But to say goodbye to a disabled 10,000ton tanker, because apparently it is impossible to hit from 100m away? That's just not on, a blind, one armed gunner could hit that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The problem is that with the deck gun in the game, it's easy to destroy a target 3000 yards away with a very small number of rounds because the thing is simply too accurate. Even WITH CURRENT DECK GUN RESTRICTIONS my boats are getting tonnage that by far outstrips even the best historical deck gun stats for entire flotillas. If the developers make the deck gun useable in higher wind conditions (which is what some people are demanding) we'll have a situation where it will be much more effective to use the deck gun than it will be to use a torpedo in ANY situation. The limit on deck gun usage is the only thing keeping the deck gun from totally ruining this simulation.
As you say, before they release the gun for use in all weathers, the developers MUST make the deck gun realistically inaccurate and hard to aim.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gabriel_cd:
We're not talking about hitting a target at 5km range in a storm. Sure that's next to impossible. But to say goodbye to a disabled 10,000ton tanker, because apparently it is impossible to hit from 100m away? That's just not on, a blind, one armed gunner could hit that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The problem is that with the deck gun in the game, it's easy to destroy a target 3000 yards away with a very small number of rounds because the thing is simply too accurate. If the developers make it useable in higher wind conditions we'll have a situation where it will be much more effective to use the deck gun than it will be to use a torpedo in ANY situation. The limit on deck gun usage is the only thing keeping the deck gun from totally ruining this simulation. Before they release the gun for use in all weathers, the developers MUST make the deck gun realistically inaccurate and hard to aim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly! As already stated I can outgun any single destroyer easy at 1000+ meters....LOL!
Putting a torpedo into him when he's charging straight down on me is a much more impossible task.
I think we better give it up Beer. 
We're trying to fight the new Sub-Doom 3, FPS crowd, that want to turn this sim into the next version of Quake 5!
Comm'on I just wanna blow ships up with my rocket propelled grenade launcher already. 
