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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"I don't think an ideal situation should let you do whatever you want, because then it's not a simulator anymore." Simulating every concievable action isn't being a sim anymore? Don't follow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because my dropping the U-Boat and trading it in for the Bismarck doesn't fit well for a submarine simulator. If a simulation is supposed to simulate the real experience, then what's the point in providing "conceivable actions" that aren't going to actually happen? It is no longer a simulator...but something else. Something less real.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Since when has a good simulation forced you to behave in a realistic manner? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All good simulators force you to behave in a realistic manner in some way. Whether it be the trim characteristics of the plane you're flying, or the appropriate actions of a uboat commander. If they suddenly let people do stuff that uboat commanders would not do, then you are no longer simulating a uboat commander. It becomes an arcade game where you can do stuff that shouldn't be done, all in the name of the holy score.
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Senior Member
With regard to the destroyers: they too would have had a difficult time keeping on target in a storm. The better bet would be to attack the sub using asw weapons like depth charges or hedgehogs. Even ramming (in some cases) might be a possibility. But anyway, look at the destroyers. The 5in gun mounts are enclosed. In many cases the targeting is done not by the gun crew, but by an analog fire control director with range finding equipt. The gun mounts (depending on age of ship) would be controlled from one source in concert and directed toward a target in salvos. Its done using syncros, servos, and motors. This stuff was around at least as early as 42 that I know of. You did not see this stuff on single open mounts where your best technology was hopefully a good set of optics. The destroyer gun crews are relatively safe, even in heavy weather. At some point though, the violence of the sea would make even fire control equipt less of an asset in that era.
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Member
If they are going to limit the deck gun and the waves on the ocean are not an indicator if you can use it or not then we need some kind indicator. I am tired of getting blasted for trying to use the guns when they can't be used.
How about if your submerged and you try to use the flak gun, instead of it saying "You cannot use when submerged" it would say "You cannot used when submerged - seas are to rough" That way there would be no guessing about surfacing to see if it works.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
this particular method of restricting gun usage bears no good resemblance to reality, and is no more realistic than the alleged gun stabilisation or recieving radio messages underwater. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is absolutely realistic, because no U-Boat commander would take the chance of losing men overboard. Each man on a U-Boat is essential, and any commander who threatened his boat by silly antics like that wouldn't have lasted long.
It's a realistic restriction because we know that our crew aren't real men. It doesn't really bother us if one man, or ten men, die due to our obsessiveness about sinking enemy ships. Real commanders didn't have the luxury of throwing away their crewmen's lives on a whim.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrReaper:
If they are going to limit the deck gun and the waves on the ocean are not an indicator if you can use it or not then we need some kind indicator. I am tired of getting blasted for trying to use the guns when they can't be used.
How about if your submerged and you try to use the flak gun, instead of it saying "You cannot use when submerged" it would say "You cannot used when submerged - seas are to rough" That way there would be no guessing about surfacing to see if it works. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Before trying to man them, use the navigator to list the weather report and he'll tell you the exact wind speed!
That's what its for!
This is what I do.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by markkram95:
I totally agree with the realism of the deck gun on the subs not being used in bad weather, but what about the destroyers? Were they able to effectively man and use their guns against U-Boats in this weather, and if so why? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Destroyers had enclosed turrets, destroyers are much more stable than subs in higher sea states, destroyers had more complex gun-aiming technology, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm guessing that destroyers may have had some sort of rudimentary gun steadying device.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frederf220:
The limit for crew hazard would be much higher than 7m/s seas. I'd be fine with limiting the deck gun/flak gun there. Since when has a good simulation forced you to behave in a realistic manner? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Every single simulation I've played has imposed limits on what you can do with people under your command. That's what separates simulations from other types of games.
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Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrReaper:
How about if your submerged and you try to use the flak gun, instead of it saying "You cannot use when submerged" it would say "You cannot used when submerged - seas are to rough" That way there would be no guessing about surfacing to see if it works. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can find out whether it will work or not by checking the weather. Anything over 6m/s and the gun won't work. Just ask your navigator - he can tell you.
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Member
Check the weather. I did not know that... Thanks for the tip.
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Senior Member
Well then why can I surface in the middle of 10 destroyers? Why can I crash headlong into a seawall at flank speed? The game doesn't prevent me from doing those things does it?
No real U-boat commander would do those things, but I get to because I'm running the simulator. A simulator is a device which gives REALISTIC OUTPUT BASED ON THE INPUT. It has nothing to do with the "big picture" atmosphere and having you feel like you're there back in history.
And my crew would not burst into flames if I told them to man the deck gun in 8m/s seas. Worst that would happen is they'd miss 4/10 shots instead of 2/10 shots.
