1. #11
    hop2002's Avatar Senior Member
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    how many times have we been past peak oil now?
    Oil production plateaued in 2005. Despite a booming world economy it remained flat in 2006, 2007 and 2008.

    A lot of countries have already passed their peak. The US, for example, peaked at 4.1 billion barrels in 1970. In 2008 US production was down to 2.5 billion barrels.

    North sea oil production peaked in 2000, Mexico in 2004, Russia in 2007 (probably). Peak oil is very real, it's just a question of when. Optimists in the oil industry say in 10 years or so, pessimists say it already has.

    and we still keep finding more
    We will always keep finding more. The problem is existing fields decline a little every year, so we have to find a lot more just to keep up with decline.

    For the last decade or so we have only been finding a little more. We are living off the discoveries that were made in the 60s.
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  2. #12
    Outlaw---'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by heywooood:
    in the 21st century - a truly 'first world country' (whatever the f*ck that is) should be done with oil and coal...
    Feel free to explain how this is possible.

    --Outlaw.
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  3. #13
    There is no way of stopping the use of oil and coal just overnight.

    However, one should start thinking (and acting) gradually towards that goal.

    I don't really understand what people always talk of, referring to the "freedom of having cheap gas"-supply.
    There have been 13million new cars last year in China alone - and they all are gonna use gas.

    That raises the price - it's inevitable.
    What's the problem with buying a 40mpg car?
    It's gonna save you lots of money in the long run.

    This isn't the 1950s anymore, you just can't afford gas-guzzlers anymore.
    Drilling off-shore won't change that:
    Oil-cooperations aren't THAT stupid

    Oh, and why not buy a Diesel?
    New Diesels beat gasolines every day the week.
    They have come a long way in the last couple of years.
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  4. #14
    horseback's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by stalkervision:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
    cultural/geographical note:

    The 'East Coast' of the US is generally assumed to mean that stretch of coastline from the southern tip of Florida to Maine; only residents of the Mountain Time Zone maintain that the 'East Coast' begins at the mouth of the Rio Grande, and that is only to twit Texans who arrogantly refer to themselves as 'Southwesterners' and use images of Sahuaro cactus (found naturally only in Sonora and Arizona) and the like in their advertising or personal correspondance.

    Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico is going to happen no matter what; if American companies don't do it, Mexican, Venezualan, or God help us, Chinese companies will, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">and I doubt that they are more likely to be ecologically responsible than Americans will.</span>

    I understand that there was a mass orgasm on the Left when former Vice President Cheney's old firm Halliburton was revealed to be involved in some way, but that doesn't change the fact that the oil is there and someone is going to go get it out and sell it.

    <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">The US is the nearest first world country and has the greatest interest in seeing to it that the oil is extracted safely;</span> it might as well be us. At the very least, it simplifies the lawsuits.

    cheers

    horseback
    I find your rational quite interesting. Seems that any safety concerns aren't in this equation though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Does highlighting the key words help you at all?

    As I said, if the US doesn't drill for the oil in the Gulf of Mexico, someone else (possibly less technologically capable and less concerned about our wellbeing) will. Period.

    Since the US has a vested interest in a minimum amount of oil spillage in the rich fishing and beach resort areas along its Gulf Coast, it follows that Americans are more probably going to be more safe and responsible than Mexican, Venezualan, British, or Chinese organizations.

    As I understand it, out of thousands of deep-sea oil rigs, this is the first big spill in many, many years. A lot of stuff apparently went wrong, and people died. Hopefully the responsible individuals will be identified and made to pay the appropriate penalties WITHOUT a lot of political grandstanding.

    At this writing, there has been no major landfall of the sort that occured at Prince William Sound when the EXXON VALDEZ went aground. I've heard speculation that the oil may be dispersed before it does the sort of catastrophic (photogenic) damage that the talking heads are anxiously waiting for.

    Wouldn't that be a b!tch?

    cheers

    horseback
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  5. #15
    Airmail109's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by horseback:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
    cultural/geographical note:

    The 'East Coast' of the US is generally assumed to mean that stretch of coastline from the southern tip of Florida to Maine; only residents of the Mountain Time Zone maintain that the 'East Coast' begins at the mouth of the Rio Grande, and that is only to twit Texans who arrogantly refer to themselves as 'Southwesterners' and use images of Sahuaro cactus (found naturally only in Sonora and Arizona) and the like in their advertising or personal correspondance.

    Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico is going to happen no matter what; if American companies don't do it, Mexican, Venezualan, or God help us, Chinese companies will, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">and I doubt that they are more likely to be ecologically responsible than Americans will.</span>

    I understand that there was a mass orgasm on the Left when former Vice President Cheney's old firm Halliburton was revealed to be involved in some way, but that doesn't change the fact that the oil is there and someone is going to go get it out and sell it.

    <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">The US is the nearest first world country and has the greatest interest in seeing to it that the oil is extracted safely;</span> it might as well be us. At the very least, it simplifies the lawsuits.

    cheers

    horseback
    I find your rational quite interesting. Seems that any safety concerns aren't in this equation though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Does highlighting the key words help you at all?

    As I said, if the US doesn't drill for the oil in the Gulf of Mexico, someone else (possibly less technologically capable and less concerned about our wellbeing) will. Period.

    Since the US has a vested interest in a minimum amount of oil spillage in the rich fishing and beach resort areas along its Gulf Coast, it follows that Americans are more probably going to be more safe and responsible than Mexican, Venezualan, British, or Chinese organizations.

    As I understand it, out of thousands of deep-sea oil rigs, this is the first big spill in many, many years. A lot of stuff apparently went wrong, and people died. Hopefully the responsible individuals will be identified and made to pay the appropriate penalties WITHOUT a lot of political grandstanding.

    At this writing, there has been no major landfall of the sort that occured at Prince William Sound when the EXXON VALDEZ went aground. I've heard speculation that the oil may be dispersed before it does the sort of catastrophic (photogenic) damage that the talking heads are anxiously waiting for.

    Wouldn't that be a b!tch?

    cheers

    horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You don't get what has happened here. A British company is drilling an area which the US government controls. The same US administration relaxed the regulations that allowed companies to drill there and some of the new drilling supposedly bypassed even the more relaxed regulations.

    The British government isn't going to come and steal your oil.

    No the oil isn't being diapered, in fact somehow the oil has managed to plume deep in the ocean because the dispersants have altered it. This is so big large parts of the gulf of mexico are going to be dead for the next few hundred years.

    Wouldn't that be a b!tch?
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  6. #16
    stalkervision's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by horseback:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
    cultural/geographical note:

    The 'East Coast' of the US is generally assumed to mean that stretch of coastline from the southern tip of Florida to Maine; only residents of the Mountain Time Zone maintain that the 'East Coast' begins at the mouth of the Rio Grande, and that is only to twit Texans who arrogantly refer to themselves as 'Southwesterners' and use images of Sahuaro cactus (found naturally only in Sonora and Arizona) and the like in their advertising or personal correspondance.

    Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico is going to happen no matter what; if American companies don't do it, Mexican, Venezualan, or God help us, Chinese companies will, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">and I doubt that they are more likely to be ecologically responsible than Americans will.</span>

    I understand that there was a mass orgasm on the Left when former Vice President Cheney's old firm Halliburton was revealed to be involved in some way, but that doesn't change the fact that the oil is there and someone is going to go get it out and sell it.

    <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">The US is the nearest first world country and has the greatest interest in seeing to it that the oil is extracted safely;</span> it might as well be us. At the very least, it simplifies the lawsuits.

    cheers

    horseback
    I find your rational quite interesting. Seems that any safety concerns aren't in this equation though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Does highlighting the key words help you at all?

    As I said, if the US doesn't drill for the oil in the Gulf of Mexico, someone else (possibly less technologically capable and less concerned about our wellbeing) will. Period.

    Since the US has a vested interest in a minimum amount of oil spillage in the rich fishing and beach resort areas along its Gulf Coast, it follows that Americans are more probably going to be more safe and responsible than Mexican, Venezualan, British, or Chinese organizations.

    As I understand it, out of thousands of deep-sea oil rigs, this is the first big spill in many, many years. A lot of stuff apparently went wrong, and people died. Hopefully the responsible individuals will be identified and made to pay the appropriate penalties WITHOUT a lot of political grandstanding.

    At this writing, there has been no major landfall of the sort that occured at Prince William Sound when the EXXON VALDEZ went aground. I've heard speculation that the oil may be dispersed before it does the sort of catastrophic (photogenic) damage that the talking heads are anxiously waiting for.

    Wouldn't that be a b!tch?

    cheers

    horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No actually. With the track record the US has should so far doing this now do you think they will do it any safer?

    Personally I believe a consortium of country in this area should be formed to strictly monitor all oil companies drilling and procedures. It appears that this was bound to happen given the very lax regulation on the industry.

    BTW I want you to read this new article.

    Gulf oil spill could be bound for the East Coast

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/n...zu2y1H#ixzz0oCqHkEEP
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  7. #17
    GoToAway's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Aimail101:
    Still a good idea?
    Of course.
    Sarah Palin and Fox News told me that drilling is totally safe.

    In fact, I saw a report on Fox News the other night saying that since oil is natural, the Gulf will correct itself in time and that we don't need to worry about it.
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  8. #18
    stalkervision's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by GoToAway:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
    Still a good idea?
    Of course.
    Sarah Palin and Fox News told me that drilling is totally safe.

    In fact, I saw a report on Fox News the other night saying that since oil is natural, the Gulf will correct itself in time and that we don't need to worry about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh god, are people really this stupid.
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  9. #19
    GoToAway's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by stalkervision:
    Oh god, are people really this stupid.
    Yes, unfortunately.

    It's interesting that the right wing can't wrap its head around anthropogenic climate change, but can find experts to explain away oil spills at the drop of a hat.

    Interestingly, the common factor is a strong corporate interest.

    But I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
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  10. #20
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